In Moderation
Providing health, nutrition and fitness advice in moderate amounts to help you live your best life.
Rob: Co-host of the podcast "In Moderation" and fitness enthusiast. Rob has a background in exercise science and is passionate about helping others achieve their health and fitness goals. He brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the show, providing valuable insights on topics such as calories, metabolism, and weight loss.
Liam: Co-host of the podcast "In Moderation" and new father. Liam has a background in nutrition and is dedicated to promoting a balanced and sustainable approach to health and wellness. With his witty and sarcastic style, Liam adds a unique flavor to the show, making it both informative and entertaining.
In Moderation
Attack of the Chiropractors!
Ever wondered how two chiropractors with completely different journeys find common ground in their passion for health and wellness? Join us as Dr. Mike and Dr. Tatiana share their unique paths into chiropractic care—Tatiana from massage therapy and sports chiropractic, and Mike from biology with an initial dream of orthopedic surgery. As they recount personal stories and professional insights, you’ll hear about their love for hiking, exploring new foods, and the balance they maintain between work and life. Plus, Mike's candid reflection on his shift towards functional medicine offers a fresh look at continuous learning and adaptation in healthcare.
Together, we venture into the intricate world of chiropractic specialties, from radiology to clinical nutrition and neurology. Dr. Mike and Dr. Tatiana help demystify pediatric chiropractic care, debunking myths and emphasizing the rigorous training necessary for these fields. We critically examine the ethics of clinical supervision, addressing the perils of outdated practices and the importance of evidence-based care. Expect some laughter too, as they share humorous anecdotes involving their pets and the quirks of their profession, keeping the conversation engaging and light-hearted.
We also investigate the diverse dynamics of chiropractic practices across different countries, highlighting the contrasts between American and Canadian healthcare models and how these differences impact patient care. Tackling the pseudoscience and misconceptions rampant in the field, we offer advice on identifying reliable chiropractors, especially after serious incidents like car accidents. This episode is packed with insightful discussions, practical advice, and a dash of humor—perfect for anyone keen to understand the multifaceted world of chiropractic medicine.
You can find Move Forward Chiropractic
https://www.tiktok.com/@moveforwardchiro
https://www.instagram.com/moveforwardchiro
You can find us on social media here:
Rob Tiktok
Rob Instagram
Liam Tiktok
Liam Instagram
hey everybody, welcome to episode 70, because I remember 69 was last week 69 was last week.
Speaker 2:69 was last two months.
Speaker 1:No, it was last week. I specifically remember welcome to episode 70 of in moderation. We have two guests on this week. Last week we had zero wait, do we know? Last week we had one, yeah was it two weeks ago?
Speaker 2:wait what? No, what.
Speaker 1:No, what happened Last week?
Speaker 2:Yes, well, last week was.
Speaker 1:No, wait, wait was last week Hope and then the week before that was just us, whatever it was. No, it was Hope and then us, hope and then us. Okay, so last week We'll cut all that in editing. Last week it was two of us, so I want to make sure I say it. So we have Dr Mike, and how do I pronounce this? Tates?
Speaker 3:Tates. Yeah, that was actually my best friend. We used to work together at a chiropractic clinic and we were both assistant and Tatiana was like too much, like too much and she would go like Tates, Tates, Tates, Tates.
Speaker 2:So I just stayed like that like too much and she would go like teeth, teeth, teeth, so I just stay like that.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like it. I'm a whole bunch of things according to people on the internet, none of them good, but um, we like to hand it over to our guests because we're not good at introducing people, so we're going to let you two do the introduction.
Speaker 4:Just tell us a little bit about yourselves. You're a starter. You want to go first, Sure.
Speaker 3:I can start. So I'm Dr Tate or Tatiana, but we're both from Puerto Rico. I started as a massage therapist in Puerto Rico and then, when I moved to the US, I did athletic training and then I moved to chiropractic and I specialize a lot in sports. But I just love working with a lot of active people and just being, you know, simple, helping them keep that active lifestyle. But besides from that, we are super simple people. We just enjoy life, um, you know, going on hikes, going to the beach, just doing adventures, um, say, tasting really good foods and you know, and just learning.
Speaker 4:So oh yeah especially just filled with seed oils. That's my my favorite, regardless of the ingredient. Yeah.
Speaker 1:They know which podcast they're on. Super Simple works very well on this podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you said complicated.
Speaker 1:I'd be like, oh, we're in trouble. Ok, what about you, Mike? What do you give? Give us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 4:So so I started as biology major for the longest time. I kind of wanted to be an orthopedic surgeon and then I don't think it was like 11th, 12th grade I kind of switched to chiropractic. But it was this specific chiropractor back home which I don't know where he is. I don't know if he died.
Speaker 1:I've been willing to just say things I don't know if he died. I don't know if he died. I've been willing to just say he died like I don't know.
Speaker 4:I gotta find his license, to try to just call him and just say, hey, thank you for, like you know, giving me the last push. I don't know where he is, um, but if, if he's watching dr david, you're awesome, um, so this was like the first. I've always gone to chiropractors, you know, but I've never had someone be very detailed and like work with different physicians. I always thought they were like, yeah, they're another massage therapist with cracking bones license whatever massage therapist for your bones, yeah yeah, that's, that's what I thought.
Speaker 4:You know, like, what the hell is this? But he was very detailed. He worked with some of the nearby orthopedic doctors and primary care physicians. I was like this is awesome, I like this. And then got into a massive identity crisis because for the longest time so to get a little backslider, so people understand how, like, going inside chiropractic works Very similar to med school there's like branches of like specialties you can do, like if you go, you can be like internal medicine doctor, or, if you want to do the extra years, you can be aurgeon, you know whatever you want to do, quack, you can go down, because I was going to ask you about it because all I've learned from chiropractors on social media is that seed oils and aspartame is horrible.
Speaker 1:For me. That's pretty much the extent of what I've learned from social media, chiropractors, that is.
Speaker 4:That is what.
Speaker 3:That's what we're here yeah, that's, that's the main thing, to completely destroy 85 of the profession and we actually did believe that for a moment like I would be one of those reading the ingredients, be like oh, this has.
Speaker 4:I think we all a little bit like that until you go into, like the research, which is which was my, my initial thing. For the longest time. I was kind of bashing with a lot of the of my colleagues. I was like, but this makes no sense, why would you do that? And I've always wanted to go into the, the rehabilitation and neurology. So more like battling stuff, vertigo, all that stuff. Once I graduated I started module one, fucking hated it with my life when I started module one after graduating.
Speaker 2:Do you have started module one before?
Speaker 4:I should have done module one because I that with that post-doctorate diplomat you can start as a student. But I was like, ah, it's too much work, I went to I'll have more time. Took module one, hated it, got into this massive identity crisis and that's where I stumbled by her. She said you've always been interested in functional medicine and nutrition and all the chemistry stuff. Why don't you just like look that up and see you can do stuff like that? So I went into this massive rabbit hole and here I am.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like yeah. The funniest part is that when we first met, he was the type of guy that he wouldn't eat anything. He would just eat like mac and cheese, eggs, bread, soda. He would go to CC's pizza, all that Put some maple syrup on that, yeah.
Speaker 3:So when he met me, I used to be a vegetarian for 14 years and then I stopped doing it. So I learned how to cook a lot of vegetables and integrate all of that to my foods and I started to teach him and all of a sudden he became this guru of food. I'm like what the heck?
Speaker 4:so that's a little bit about us roughly, and I like to play aggressive video games a lot, the ones that you scream, those ones yeah I mean to be fair.
Speaker 2:Any game you can scream. If you're you know, I guess you could, but if you're playing, like you're screaming at that. That's a problem like you need to see someone besides a chiropractor for that. Well, according to chiropractors, you'd want to see a chiropractor for that oh yeah, I mean for six months by the way way we can help your mood disorder, you know, just to see one adjustment and you're good.
Speaker 1:Can you tell me, like just, can you give me a little? Because I don't think most people really know, I don't really know Like what's the purpose of chiropractic medicine. So you said there's like different paths you can take. Like kind of, give us a general, like I don't know just like what are most chiropractors doing? Like I'm talking, dumb this down like real low, all right, just pure basics.
Speaker 2:I'm like he is a fifth grader.
Speaker 4:Talk to me like I am. Do you want me to do it or do you want me to do it? However? Yeah, so the most dumbed way and more easiest way to understand, according to the World Health Organization, which was updated a year ago, which is the most recent evidence we have about what the manipulation do, because we can go into a tangent in that is another pain management tool for non-surgical procedures, so it increases a little bit of the range of motion temporarily so it facilitates the movement for an exercise. So a lot of people when they get adjusted like, oh my god, I feel so much better and they start moving, they start doing all their stuff. They got better by the movement they were doing not, but the adjustment. That is the big mistake you will hear with like chiropractors every time I mean, that's everything on.
Speaker 1:Like you know shows. Like you know you see a tv show. They just like, oh, come here. And then they're like, oh, now I feel so much better so it's not that that's really doing it, that helps you feel better in order to do the movement that helps you actually feel better, no, because what it does is increases your range of motion and then decreases the pain.
Speaker 3:But how it decreases the pain is because there's a release of endorphins. But that is a short-term type of thing. So after you do that adjustment, the most important thing is going to be to target with other therapies. It can be exercises, mental therapies and all that. But that's the real magic. So it's example like you come in you have low back pain and I tell you oh, we're going to do all these exercises right now. You're going to be like heck, no, like I'm in pain. So we use that adjustment to be able to decrease the pain, increase the range of motion. That way you feel better, you're happier and now we can do those other exercises. So that's the real magic. But you know they overcomplicate it.
Speaker 2:Finally somebody made chiropractors make sense.
Speaker 1:That's what the purpose of for me at this point is, like what is actually going on. That's the purpose for me of this podcast.
Speaker 4:What is actually going on? That is like the physiological, if you want to go into the nitty-gritty. Essentially, when you have a little crack, that afferent signal goes into the brain, then goes back into that specific area as an efferent signal and just sends a small endorphin reaction. So that's why you feel like, oh my God, I feel so much better, sends a small endorphin reaction, so that's why you feel like, oh my god, I feel so much better. But that's like the only peptide that had they have found that actually releases like there's a little bit of serotonin and dopamine, because you kind of feel less pain, so you kind of feel a little bit better, so your mood is a little bit better. But but there's like no concrete evidence like this is what happens. Yeah, roughly, that is like the whole adjustment thingy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so there's like a really misconception and this comes from way back, from when chiropractic started, and there's actually a chart of where those nerves go to like what organs and everything like what they're connected, and still chiropractors use it. It's like, oh, if I adjust your T2, I'm going to be affecting this specific organ. No, that's not happening. No, there's no evidence for that. You're just increasing range of motion, decreasing pain. That's not happening. No, there's no evidence for that. You're just increasing range of motion, decreasing pain. That's about it.
Speaker 4:We're going to have to complicate it that much, yeah, like I'm not going to cure asthma.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to cure your GI issues, no.
Speaker 1:That's what I see a lot from chiropractors. Is it all comes? Back to these adjustments right, Like all these different disease states or whatever.
Speaker 3:It just all comes back if I do this, it relieves that I haven't heard that in a while. Oh, I see that like that's what I stopped like.
Speaker 1:Well, this is a disease state and and big pharma isn't treating the actual underlying cause, I release your whatever I don't know like just yeah, when I hear chiropractors saying that we are nervous system doctors.
Speaker 4:I have a friend, like we have a friend in common. He did his uh diplomate in clinical neurology. He has a master's in neuroscience and he's like no, yeah, that's no, that's not how it works.
Speaker 3:Yeah it's bs like that's bullshit like, that's not it's not it like we're not nerve resistant doctors.
Speaker 2:We're musculoskeletal doctors so bone massagers really wasn't that far off the mark no, so you said there's different like subspecialties.
Speaker 1:Then right like you kind of go into different fields, like so what are? So again, what are you in, and then like kind of a general like what is the some of the most common ones, I guess I'd say the whole community is going to hate me right now, but let's say that's why, that's why that's why I exist, um.
Speaker 4:So there's multiple branches you can take um, the ones that genuinely are good, that make sense. Going into it, sports chiropractic, which is essentially the same level as a physical therapist Radiology, so a chiropractor can actually go into the same residency program as a radiologist. It's a three-year program, same as med school, and you are a certified chiropractic radiologist, so you could have the same exact job as a medical radiologist. That is for me, though, that's a really good one, and it's the hardest one to get in. It's the hardest one to pass, the hardest one to maintain Makes sense, because you're essentially reading radiographs, mris.
Speaker 1:You know you're essentially the. So what makes them different? Different, though, than a radiologist, like what's the difference between going the chiropractic route?
Speaker 4:I guess, I would say probably it's a little bit shorter time because for med school for med school will be way longer, that's for sure this one will be a little bit of a shorter time because if you want to be a radiologist, you can be do the chiropractic route, which is probably like three and a half years, four years, depending what school you go, and then the diplomate program residency program is three years and you have to take two board exams to just even pass and become a radiologist. That is the one that is top notch, but not a lot of people do it because obviously if you're a radiologist you're not going to be practicing at all because you're in a dark room reading like a normal radiologist.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm just assuming that this cardi sorry chiropractic radiologist is going into the room and just being like okay, give me a second. I need to dislocate your spine so you can get a picture of this all the car I know.
Speaker 4:I personally know two um chiropractor radiologists he had. The one of them actually is a faculty member in uh oh my god national university, health science university he's. He's a head of radiology, he teaches anything radiology. And the other one he he works in multiple hospitals. So you know it's it's a really, really detailed program. I would say that is like the most profound.
Speaker 1:So we got sports. We got sports, chiropractic medicine, and then we got radiology, chiropractic medicine. Yeah, what else we got.
Speaker 3:The functional medicine is really good and then neurology.
Speaker 4:No, it's clinical nutrition.
Speaker 3:Oh, never mind.
Speaker 4:But I'm a little iffy with that one because the ACA, so the American Chiropractic Association, they have a branch of nutrition which is the American Board of Chiropractic Nutrition, but the one that I'm talking about is the American Board of Clinical Nutrition, which is the one that MDs DOs. Anyone that is a healthcare can actually take that exam. That is the route you can take.
Speaker 3:And then the other one will be neurology yeah, and that one is really good for people that work with, uh, more neurological type of symptoms or people that have like concussions, vertigos um all that stuff. So it it is really good, but it's a hefty one too, yeah I, I, I say the most difficult ones is it's radiology and.
Speaker 4:I would put side by side the clinical nutrition and the neurology, because I spoke because the whole goal that I'm going through is to become a dietician. That's like the end goal. And I was talking to, um, uh, oh my God, one of the, the president of the school that I'm going, and he is a licensed, registered dietitian and he has also that exam, the diplomating clinical nutrition. I'm like be honest, which one's more difficult? And he was like the clinical nutrition board is like twice as hard as the registered dietitian license. I was like, oh my God, okay.
Speaker 4:So, that's what I'm expecting to die.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's other ones. There's, like you know, um pediatrics which is bs by the way, can?
Speaker 1:yeah, can I? Ask, like I've seen some videos of like adjusting like children and like babies, and just alarms just go off immediately in my head every time a a patient asks me can I bring my kids so you can adjust it Like.
Speaker 3:Does he have an issue? No, Right, why? Because if we go back to the basics, the adjustment increases range of motion, decreases pain. Kids have a lot of range of motion. They're growing. Yeah, they're growing yeah why do I want to adjust them, unless there's like an actual issue?
Speaker 4:else, or like a, like a kid athlete yeah, and not even that even if I get a kid, that is an athlete.
Speaker 3:I just do rehab. I don't even do the adjustment, I just do rehab.
Speaker 4:I don't even do the adjustment, which is a no-no in the chiropractic world.
Speaker 3:If you don't adjust somewhere.
Speaker 4:You're not a chiropractor.
Speaker 1:But going back, I'm a sports chiro, yeah, so I focus more on the rehab, because, especially for a child, I mean correct me if I'm wrong here, but an adjustment could could go really wrong, like if you don't know what you're doing.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, right, wrong yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So like people say like oh, you have a bone out of place, oh, you were putting the spine back into alignment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the stuff I hear. And then I see him with a skeleton and they fold them in half.
Speaker 3:That's the stuff I see with a skeleton and they fold them in half, like that's stuff I see. So if you have a bone out of place, I'm not gonna touch you, I'm sending you to the hospital because you're probably out of place. I'm using my cpr license, yeah and the other thing is that the spine is actually so stable. You have all the ligaments, you have the disc, you're not moving anything yeah, you have so many stuff.
Speaker 2:You're not moving anything back into place if you were that fragile football players will die when they get tackled yeah it's like it's just common sense yeah, look how much effort it takes just to crack your ribs and those are just tiny little things floating there yeah yeah, no, the, the pediatrics.
Speaker 4:Um, up to this day, there's absolutely no evidence. Because this is, this is the, the major. I'm going to debunk the whole chiropractic pediatric profession. A lot of gonna hate me.
Speaker 1:I don't really care, the whole thing with people hating you is why people go on this podcast. Can't solve others. That's pretty much the goal dude, this is what happens.
Speaker 4:So most of the pediatric chiropractors would say like, oh, I help like kids with colic and this is, this is how because I can talk about this, because I worked. I worked with someone that had a lot of pediatric experience, so I can speak pretty heavily about this. So the whole thing is they will do like a 12 visit, like a 12 week plan, right, and they'll like adjust the kid and like do like some like basic movement stuff, blah, blah, blah, but you know what's the fun and the colleague will go away. You know what the research says. How long does it take for collegeic to go on its own?
Speaker 1:12 weeks, all right. So was it the chiropractor or was it just the baby? Just the waiting? I like that, like I like I love the history of medicine and like the old timey, like nonsense, with the guy with a little doctor bag that had stuff that just made you pee and poop and stuff like that and a a lot of the old timey cures were always just like hey, do this and wait a month.
Speaker 1:It would be like oh, how do I know if I'm pregnant? Well, ok, sit in a bath filled with yogurt and then wait three weeks, and if you don't get your period, you're pregnant, it's like.
Speaker 2:Well, you didn't have to sit in the bath with the yogurt.
Speaker 1:You could have just waited them do anything and then they'll be like oh, it worked, yeah, I love it. Yep, that's, that's pretty much. Yeah, so so pediatric not so. I kind of I kind of suspected that and I feel like a part of that is where, like, some chiropractors get a bad name. Is is for the, the with the stuff with the adjusting children and stuff just see, immediately.
Speaker 2:You just see like anybody, you just see it, You're just like.
Speaker 1:I can't imagine that is good.
Speaker 3:I remember there was this video Video. He makes fun of me. When I say video, he says you have such perfect English. Until you say video, I feel like I'm saying normal.
Speaker 4:We'll go back and we'll hear that little a little, a little mean about it.
Speaker 1:I was born and raised here. I still say reese's and people make fun of me, so we all have those words.
Speaker 3:It's fine so, um, there was this doctor that michael actually really liked and he admired and everything, and he posted this um about this child I crying.
Speaker 4:I think, dr, it's actually covered him. Oh yeah, I think so yeah.
Speaker 3:The child was literally crying. And he adjusted the child. Like why are you doing that? First of all, the kid is scared, it's crying, he's going to tense up. So you're fighting against all these muscles, you're just going to strain the kid. Like why, what's?
Speaker 1:the necessity You're going to traumatize that poor kid. Okay, so, so, no, please don't. So. What we really need to get into is why is it that chiropractors feel the need to go, let's say, out of their lane a little bit?
Speaker 2:What is it about? That's what I was going to say about the clinical nutritionist stuff is that you basically went, you know what, there's this other lane here and instead of just swerving out of it and being all over the place, I'm going to learn how that lane works and then I can be in it.
Speaker 1:No, but it's like, it's a lot of like. Yeah, what is it about? You know, it's just like. Is it just the people that, like, chiropractic medicine attracts, or is it something about it specifically that causes chiropractors go? No, I'm going to teach people about the dangers of canola oil, like what. What's going on there?
Speaker 3:I feel it's a 50 50. Um, it's a lot of people that the profession attracts. Um, they have that type of vibe and mentality. Other thing is the outdated data that we were taught in school. Okay, and people just stay with whatever is taught in school instead of looking for new research.
Speaker 4:I think it also depends heavily on so the first two years of chiropractic you're essentially very heavy on the theory, on the therapies, manipulating exercise, that's. So the first year is pure theory, like you're like all the sciences nutrition, uh, neurology, everything. Then second year is more into the clinical side. So you're doing more of the therapies manual therapies, passive, active, everything. And then your last year you're in the clinic. So you're generally treating patients under someone's license same, very similar to medical school. Okay, it really.
Speaker 4:I think the turning point is who is your your clinic doctor? Yeah, who is your supervisor? Because there's a lot of supervising clinicians who generally suck butt cheeks. They're like I don't know how you're Still practicing, my dude. But like we had Very we, because you can choose who you want to go. Like it's not like it's rocket science, right? Um, we chose Very specific people that they are very Broad and they're like heavy in the Evidence, like my clinician. Like he Will have a case that's a little complicated and it was like well, let's go to PubMed and we'll be in his office for a whole hour just reading articles like OK, what will be the best course of action for X patient?
Speaker 4:And he will subtract points if I didn't get, which now I'm seeing it because I'm a professor, but he will like subtract, like points of like. You didn't do proper APA citation. That is not correct, mike. I'm like now I'm the one doing that, anyways, but I think it really really depends on who is your clinic doctor, because if you have someone that genuinely cares generally you know, because in Florida we our title is chiropractic physician, we have a pretty big scope in florida like we can do blood labs, we can do nutrition, we can do exercise, we can order any type of imaging, we can do a lot of stuff. The only things we can do is obviously prescription drugs, because we have no training. We have. We take six credits in pharmacology and that's like basic understanding.
Speaker 1:Basics, yeah, very basic I think I have like six credits in like pharmacology my time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's like yeah like ibuprofen, um you know like it's not heavy and and we can't even do phlebotomy in florida, so we can do. We have our license. Lets us do a lot of stuff. So I think a lot of people they just stay with like the basics, instead of like you got a lot of education from the school. Why are you gonna use one thing out of so many therapies and treatments that we learn? It's not like it's. It's not like we don't learn it like Like for us to even practice in any state we have to take a physical therapy board exam. It's not like it's not optional, denied.
Speaker 3:It's like they just hide it in the back of their head.
Speaker 4:Like I don't need that information, I'll just go with muscle, cause I'm not a real chiropractor, like what actually we have in chiropractic.
Speaker 3:There's something called the green book.
Speaker 4:Wow.
Speaker 3:That is like the basic philosophical book that was written what the 1918, something like that 1920?
Speaker 4:No like 1915, something like that, 1920, 19 like 1915, something like that.
Speaker 3:I feel it's like the 1500s, honestly, and it's such an old book and it's all philosophical and it it's so mind-blowing how students nowadays, or even um professionals, they still practice by that book. It's like me taking a medical book from the medieval age, like why so?
Speaker 1:yeah is it kind of that, like chiropractors are kind of drawn, are yeah you like you said, they kind of get stuck in older ways, like I?
Speaker 2:don't you know? This entire thing is finally making me understand the wellness way the wellness way I was going to bring them up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because they're for their group yeah, they're a group of chiropractors that like it's essentially a chiropractor mlm oh yeah, there's this one guy at the top of it, yep, and he trains the people under them and they train the people under them, and so this ancient chiropractic technique guy is passing on a whole bunch of stuff and they're just kind of spreading out, and it entirely makes sense with what they've just told us yeah yep, it's, it's, it's tricky.
Speaker 4:It's. That's why we went into a massive identity crisis when we opened up a year ago. We're like I don't wanna. Yeah, you know, someone comes with toe pain. I'm gonna tell me you need six months, like why yeah I don't have the face to just tell them yeah, you need six months of the same exact treatment for six months.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's this idea.
Speaker 4:You have integrity.
Speaker 2:Uh-oh.
Speaker 3:And it's this idea that we had when we were in school. And once you come out, you're hit with reality that all of these teachings make no sense, like especially for me that I'm an athletic trainer. Like I saw the value of rehab and how well it worked with not even adjusting one single bone and I was like why am I doing this? But at the same time, you know it's another tool, I'm like toolbox, yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, Oakley must have woke up. He's probably got to get up.
Speaker 4:That moment.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yep, but yeah, that is essentially like the main thing.
Speaker 2:We kind of lost our train of thought with him suddenly just getting up and vamoosing. Oh, I can't take all this talk about chiropractic.
Speaker 3:I just got to go, yeah, but you know, and after I got that identity crisis, I actually Is the daughter, okay, liam.
Speaker 1:It was my dogs actually. I kept just hearing whining over and over.
Speaker 2:I'm like what is going on out there Go?
Speaker 1:out whatever Jesus, I have four of them, so there's always one that has a problem, and if it's not one of them, it's my dog. They're killing rats outside Like they're chasing things down, they're hurting themselves. Oh, they're so dumb.
Speaker 2:Why are animals so dumb Gosh? They're like better than the wellness way people. Better than the wellness way people. I already thought of that.
Speaker 1:Rob, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 4:At least they're not walking through the store half naked.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I tell you, can I ask you guys who's your favorite pseudoscience chiropractor then? Is it Dr Berg? Do you like the wellness way? People Like where are you guys at with that? Let's see, it's a tough choice. There's so many. There are so many.
Speaker 3:There's so many bad ones that I just ignore it and I just unfollow, I scroll.
Speaker 4:I'm like no, I don't want to see that I'm the only one that kind of gets. There's a lot that I think I would say what the fuck are you talking about? But I don't think I have a favorite, because they kind of like fight for who? Yeah who's the worst? I think the most. I think the ones that make there can only be one, most, I think, the ones that can only be one.
Speaker 3:Oh, I will say okay.
Speaker 1:The Rindinger.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, okay, so there's this device that he did. He invented that Maybe.
Speaker 1:I don't know if he invented it.
Speaker 3:It's like a strap that you put around your neck it has a long lever. I love it already. It's like a strap that you put around your neck it has a long lever. Okay.
Speaker 1:I love it already. It's a medieval torture device.
Speaker 3:They tie your feet on the table, good, and they take that long lever, because why wouldn't they? Right and they pull your head.
Speaker 4:Have you seen those videos? So you get the distraction. They like yank them like that. Have you seen those? Have you seen those?
Speaker 3:And there's some people that, oh that.
Speaker 4:I love how Rob.
Speaker 1:I need to order this off Amazon.
Speaker 3:And some people they do it so aggressively that the patient flies off the table. It's like, first of all, what's the necessity?
Speaker 1:When you are.
Speaker 3:When you're tying the feet. There's no way. How do they fly off the?
Speaker 1:table if their feet are tied.
Speaker 3:No the patient like literally just yanks, wait so they don't.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm trying to understand this here. This is very important. So the feet are either tied together or they're tied to the table.
Speaker 3:No, no, no. So there's some patients that they have their feet tied, but there are others that don't have it tied, and they fly off the thing is that when the feet are tied and you do that aggressive pull, there's been people that they get like uh like an avulsion fracture, like it chips off a little bit from the spine so how much taller yeah? And that's with a towel, but there's an actual device and every time a patient comes to me.
Speaker 1:This guy's a scrub. He's got a towel like you need to get you need to get the real device?
Speaker 3:yeah, you can't just be using the towel patients come to me and they're like, oh, can you do that yanking the ring dengram? I'm like, absolutely not, no.
Speaker 1:Like you don't need that.
Speaker 3:That's so, oh, it's so dangerous, because that's the stuff.
Speaker 1:I see I'm like, oh, that's chiropractic medicine right there. Because that's what's going to go viral, right Like I feel like that's the stuff people are going to see, If it doesn't look explosive.
Speaker 4:It's like who wants to see a chiropractor telling the patient you need to do this type of exercise because it's like no one really cares yeah.
Speaker 3:If you give patient exercises, they're going to get better way too fast they're not going to come back.
Speaker 1:You want to keep you know what's funny? Because I feel like it's the chiropractors that are always like big pharma makes you come back, but I feel like then they just kind of say, like see me every week for a thousand dollars, like you know, listen if we are both cancer survivors.
Speaker 4:If big pharma didn't exist, it wouldn't we wouldn't be dead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we wouldn't be doing this podcast.
Speaker 1:There's always a time wait. You guys couldn't do the adjustment to relieve the cancer organ or whatever you could have like adjusted each other.
Speaker 2:You don't just grab each other there's this guy in colombia.
Speaker 4:He can't practice in the united states because he asked the student got into a massive, massive ethical violation with the school and the board so he can't practice the united states. But he moved to colombia because he speaks spanish and he posted on facebook you remember this right? Yeah, he posted that he has a patient with thyroid cancer malignant thyroid cancer, not a benign cancer, malignant and he told her that if she wanted to like elevate her life and feel better, she needed to buy his care plan and not go. The chemotherapy and removal of the mask, oh god that's the stuff that's the kind of thing that really pissed me off yeah
Speaker 4:that really pissed me off? Yeah, because I don't really want to, there's a very high chance that person might not make it, and that really pisses me off, not even as a doctor, as a person.
Speaker 1:It's why I'm kind of curious. It seems like a lot common, I guess I'd say, or maybe just more common, in chiropractic medicine, that there's a distrust of I don't know the status quo Maybe I'll put it like whatever standard, like the big pharma, this sort of stuff. There seems to be more of that, or it seems to be at least a decent amount of that in chiropractic medicine, where they say you know what you've been told is wrong, that I don't know.
Speaker 3:yeah, that actually goes way back, because when chiropractic started, um, people were starting to get better and a lot of the medical community didn't like that. So they would start telling patients like, oh, don't go there, it's really dangerous. Like, um, they're gonna do this and this, and't go there, it's really dangerous, they're going to do this and this and that. And there was actually a really big lawsuit that chiropractic won. And right now, if someone hears a medical doctor talking shit basically about a chiropractor, they can actually get in trouble because of this lawsuit.
Speaker 3:Now I feel that a lot of people stayed with that mindset and in the past because, yes, there was an issue, but you know, it's been so many years like, there's so many advancements. And right now we are actually one of the ones that we work alongside with doctors. Like time, we have a question, we have a referral, we speak to doctors and there's always a time and place. There's moments that you're gonna need more conservative care, there's moments that you're gonna need, you know, see, a medical doctor I have patients that they literally tell me like, oh, I'm so afraid of taking, you know, an ibuprofen. Like I want to go the natural route. Like, don't suffer, if you're on vacation and it hurts. Take the ibuprofen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I see that a lot from people. I don't want to take a whatever it is a statin to lower my cholesterol. I want to do it the natural way you know, and I totally understand that. I get that.
Speaker 4:But like I it, it seems like a lot of practicing chiropractors will use that to bring them in and say okay, instead, you know you do this, instead of just saying like I think most going piggyback into what you're saying, liam a lot, of, a lot of chiropractors they they go and take like a small course in like functional medicine and for for people to kind of know what truly functional medicine is, because there's all huge. We can go into another podcast with how this is a lot another topic. But essentially a lot of people have a bad misconception of what functional medicine is. A thing is, it's just going into the natural route and there's no use for pharmacological, pharmaceutical, pharmaceutical stuff. The way it works is making sure you are co-managing correctly with the physician If the patient needs a medication, and using either a supplement, an herbal supplement, vitamins, minerals or food.
Speaker 4:A lot of people take it completely the other route and they're like don't do that, how about you just take this herb? That herb probably doesn't have a lot of evidence to support it. That's the big issue that a lot of the, a lot of the schools have they. Oh yeah, this was proven in india that it worked in ayurvedic medicine. Cool, it worked for one person, not for, like, the majority. So how?
Speaker 2:can you replicate or, even better, go for it? Even better they'll be like take this herb which, by the way, um, you know the the medication that you were offered was isolated from that herb. So that you didn't have to consume 700 kilograms of the herb to get from the dope yeah, I'll just be honest.
Speaker 1:Like whenever I hear I'm doctor so and so and I'm a functional medical, I'm like already like oh boy, I feel like I'm in, I'm about to hear some shit right here, like there's, it's always just something just wild, and out there it's, and then it proceeds to be like big pharma, yada, yada, yada or it's just like I and and but I have seen, like you know, good function people who say like I am functional medicine, but it always feels like they have to say, hey, I'm a functional medicine, this, but I'm not crazy like they have to have that.
Speaker 4:It's like a stipulation.
Speaker 3:That's me, yeah I mean, that's particularly what we do like. If you see our Instagram, it's always like yeah, we're not the ones that are going to sell you like a you know, 20 visit package for six months.
Speaker 1:No, it's like it works alongside, like you said, like it's supposed to, like you work with your doctor and then also, if you want to try these things in addition, that's great. But like it seems like the functional medicines always functional medicine, people always push you away from that.
Speaker 2:So don't take that. Try this instead. I always love that from a Canadian perspective because whenever you you Americans and anybody else that doesn't have social care you say that big pharma is all in this to make you sick and stuff is all in this to make you sick and stuff, and it's like you know, in Canada that argument doesn't work.
Speaker 1:The doctors are getting paid the exact same amount, no matter how many times they see you, no matter what they give you. Yeah, in any country besides America, dr Itz gets it all the time Like that's England, it's any other country, you just look at any of them.
Speaker 2:They do the same thing what I've come to understand, particularly from Brendan, is that the problem is more with your insurance companies than it is with Big Pharma.
Speaker 1:No insurance companies suck ass yeah.
Speaker 4:Dealing with insurance is the worst our cash, because if we tend to go insurance, they, I think them I'm not going to name an insurance company, but the highest that you will get paid for a treatment it will be probably like 35 dollars with the copay and everything. So you would have to see a lot of people to just try to sustain yourself so big. And they only cover and this is the funny part they only cover the adjustment, yeah, so they don't cover any other therapy.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so that's why you just keep doing adjustments yeah, just get real, just like a circle, just so you know, keep going around, you know, like the least amount of time we spend with a patient is 30 minutes.
Speaker 4:Why spend 30 minutes with a patient doing muscle work and exercise and build a therapeutic exercise code if it's not going to get reimbursed?
Speaker 3:that they're only going to pay you 16 bucks for exercises, by the way, and most of the time they're like no they will see the credential. They will see these things like I don't know, you're not, we're not going to cover that so that's why a lot of offices they it becomes a rat race because they're trying to keep up and get money. So they see patients every five minutes Cause they have to, you know, have this big volume to be able to get the same thing Tie your feet down.
Speaker 1:Give me a towel. Get the hell out of here.
Speaker 4:And it stops being a doctor, cause you just see numbers. Yeah, you're just cracking everybody up regardless and that's where hospital stuff happens. That's when you get there's not a huge amount of cases of stroke, but the cases that have occurred with cervical dissection.
Speaker 1:It's because of that, because the assessment is very low do you think chiropractors in other countries then are kind of on the same level as america americans, or is it like american chiropractors tend to be worse in this aspect of trying to, you know, just get adjustments and get paid off it because of the way our insurance system is um?
Speaker 4:I think it's americans. And if they graduate in the united states and they go abroad, it's still americans yeah, because because I, I we actually the south africa patient though that we have.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, she had a chiropractor in south africa and he was like a physical therapist like he. He will come and see she will. He will do cupping, he will do grass and he will do muscle work, he will do exercise. He will like, hey, we need to like help, you know, improve your sleep. Let's work on, uh, some meditation, some relaxation. So it's like a very well-rounded. And when she came to america and she went to, like you know, a big company which I'm not gonna name, and she got cracked and she's like, well, that's it. It's like, yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3:And she was like oh well, this it also depends on the country, because there's some um places outside the us that they're not doctors. They are seen more like as a massage therapist or physiotherapies and japan has a bachelor's degree yeah, so I I think I might be mistaken, but I think that the us is the only place that we are doctors.
Speaker 4:I might be wrong, but yeah, it's because of the, of the scope, like for example, like, like, I think there's a lot of, there's a little bit to freedom with giving chiropractic the title of physician, because a lot of people put like, oh, I'm a physician and they only do adjustments like, well, are you not really, not really you know?
Speaker 1:yeah, can you give us more? I like so any any more like your favorite pseudoscience in the chiropractic world. So you know, you got, like your towel neck adjustments, you got anything else that you see Every time. You see you're just kind of like oh shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I got the perfect one. Applied kinesiology.
Speaker 4:Oh my God, have you ever seen that?
Speaker 3:Yes, sociology, oh my god, have you ever seen that?
Speaker 1:wow, oh, I have not. Please inform me what's, what's this?
Speaker 2:so they put you on the table they start muscle testing.
Speaker 3:You, let's say that they muscle test you, you know, pushing down your arm, and it goes weak. Then they take a bottle, okay, with some supplement element or whatever, and they put it in your belly and then they test again. If it goes strong, it's because you're deficient of that supplement.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, so I have to start giving you. Rob had to take his glasses off. What about the?
Speaker 3:glass.
Speaker 2:What about the plastic? This is great.
Speaker 3:What about? Your body knows what you're going to do, and now it's going to become stronger body knows what you're gonna do, and now?
Speaker 1:it's gonna become stronger. That last one really seems to add up more. But I kind of like the magic, like magnesium deficiency sort of thing that sounds kind of fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like when I saw that, I was like that's what are you doing?
Speaker 1:and we ask how much do you charge for that?
Speaker 3:that's oh, they charge a lot. It's expensive.
Speaker 4:I'm like damn, I'm in the wrong side of the problem.
Speaker 1:See, these are the things I want to learn about Rob and I are setting up for when we go rogue.
Speaker 4:We start selling all sorts of bullshit.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good.
Speaker 4:Seed oils.
Speaker 1:You need to do heavy metal toxicity and detox all the time for everything. I in this chiropractor saying that, like you know, this is your spine and it's inflamed when you eat these foods and you know, then it's all you know seed oils and artificial sweeteners and you know, like all the classics and stuff like that, like what kind of people keep asking, like what do you think about this? I'm like, what do you think I think about this?
Speaker 4:like what use a little comment I've gotten tagged um, because I I try to like talk, not talk crap. But I will go more into like the spanish-speaking ones and be like no, that's because you're doing a lot of the work already both of you in the english department. I was like, oh, just switch up to the spanish and just cover the spanish. And I got man, I I understand the hate now because I've gotten people tagging me in like articles of like you're wrong. Look at this article. It says and I go into the conclusion just like basic, scrolling all the way to the conclusion and it says we can't confirm the data.
Speaker 4:Blah blah, blah, like we don't have enough evidence and I like screenshot it send. We don't have enough evidence, I screenshot it, send them to them and I get blocked. I've gotten blocked already a couple times.
Speaker 1:I love it. It's so good. Any other ways we can make money. Rob and I can make money in the future with pseudoscience.
Speaker 2:You got anything, just check it, if that's it that's fine.
Speaker 1:I just want to make sure we can write it down.
Speaker 2:Or any way that we can avoid getting sued after we break some of these net cookies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want any of the words that we can use. You want to increase vitality and stuff. You don't want to say anything that will get you sued. But if I increase your vigor like that's nothing, that's nonsense.
Speaker 4:How do you prove that? Tell them, tell your patients to buy a $200 fiber supplement that has five grams of fiber and just oh my God, this is an amazing fat burning tool and just oh my god, this is an amazing fat burning tool. Oh, it's so good. I love it, I think.
Speaker 1:I think that is like the pinnacle of uh chiropractic I think the supplements really like and that's true like any kind of, I think, professions. It comes back to supplements because it's just so easy to profit off and the margins are so so large compared to anything else.
Speaker 4:I'd say the best takeaway is if someone has the necessary education, it just gives them a little bit more trust. But if they are not backing up anything with data because you can be a doctor of whatever and even if it's in your field if you are not using the data that is current, that supports whatever you're trying to talk about, then you're a quack. My guy, like you know it's common sense, like even I don't even feel massive comfortable still talking about nutrition because it's massively complex. It's very complex, especially when it comes to, like, the functional medicine side dude, I have to like verify interactions with the medication the person is taking, with the things that I want to lower and help. And then I have it's. It's a lot so, for whenever I hear, I hear taking your medication, which is illegal, for a chiropractor to tell someone that. So that's a way you can sue someone and say hey take this supplement.
Speaker 4:It's going to help you with this. Oh yeah, but I'm taking Xanax, I'm taking levothyroxine, I'm taking all this medication who are very high contraindications, like, nah, it's okay, it's natural. I'm like dude you chug five liters of water, you're in the hospital water's natural.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So I mean, do you two have any? I kind of I like to leave people with something like actually good and decent advice. Um, so do you just have any like general recommendations for people so that you know, I don't know, like they have to see you less, which I understand. That's a terrible thing to tell people. You want to tell them. It's a horrible advice so they have to come see you more. But like what advice? Would you just general advice for just kind of being healthy and you know, within your kind of scope of practice obviously?
Speaker 4:the way, the way we practice is essentially depending on on the goals of the person, and I think that's where every chiropractor and physical therapists right, we're pretty similar um, it should be around the person's goal, like if your goal is to get out of pain, or will probably be, depending on what the issue is, it could be a month, it could be two months. You know it's everyone's different. I I can't tell you, yeah, you're gonna be here with me three months, like I don't know, you can be well in two days. So it's a lot of communication, it's a lot of understanding the end goal of the patient. Some of the times they're like.
Speaker 4:Most of the time our patients, they kind of want to stay because they want to continue with, like, the rehabilitation, they want to do more of the strength and conditioning stuff. I have people who want to stay with me for like uh, you know they like. I have one particular patient. She has depression, like a major disorder, depression, and she's taking uh, she's working with her psychiatrist, I'm working with her psychiatrist as well from the natural side and we kind of mixing and matching what's the best, best course of action. And she's been with me, you know, for a while. So it's not aligned to the person, it's. You know they're gonna stay with you if they trust you and if you're honest, if you're- honest.
Speaker 4:Yeah, if they will say there's people who will, you know, stay a month for the pain management thing, they will dip cool like I did. We did our job yeah so it's.
Speaker 3:It's really finding someone that will be very sincere, because there is a lot of psychology also involved and and it's like putting your ego aside um, like we're there for the patients to make people feel better. Not, I mean, if I get, if I become a millionaire, good, if not, then I'm okay. You know I was helping people. But the the thing that I always tell patients that, first of all, I don't have to adjust you all the time. That's just for you to feel good and for me to do other stuff. Now, when it becomes, when it comes to exercise, yes, I do want you to exercise, like mobility and you know, stay mobile, strength and conditioning, all that. That's the most important thing and that's a huge dictator, um predictor for you to age well and be resilient. And my job is to teach people how to be resilient. And I'm still gonna be here, like if they need me because you know we're humans.
Speaker 4:They cheer you later in the fight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we're humans. We do stupid things, we hit our little toe all the time, and I'll be there too.
Speaker 2:I'll be there if you need me, and I'm going to help you, but that's the main thing.
Speaker 3:So we teach all our patients you know, everything is moderation, but the most important thing is keep mobile and keep that strength going on.
Speaker 4:That was a good plug, and you didn't even notice.
Speaker 3:Oh really, the podcast called In Moderation, nice, I was inspired.
Speaker 2:Okay, in moderation. Nice, I was inspired, so okay. So two hours before we got on with you, my dad was in a big car crash. Oh, what should I be looking for to find him? Chiropractors like you guys? I was gonna ask it. I was like what are some the next?
Speaker 1:thing I was gonna say was, like what are some good things to look for? What are some red flags?
Speaker 4:that's my first question. Is he okay like? Is he stable? He's?
Speaker 2:stable okay that's as much as I know right now. Like my sisters, they was on the way to uh his brothers, which passes through a lot of empty farmland, so it was literally in the middle of nowhere. They're trying to call me, and then you know, it kept.
Speaker 1:Oh no. So when he looks for a chiropractor, what are some red flags and what are some things he should look for? What are the flags?
Speaker 3:Number one do not go to a pit mill. So that would be a personal injury clinic that they only do personal injury, because those people they usually work directly with lawyers and all they're looking is to get money out of the insurance.
Speaker 3:Um, so they're trying yeah they're trying to bill and bill and bill so they're able to get more money. Um, so I would say, go to more of a local type of practice, one that is heavy in rehabilitation, that does other therapies besides the adjustment, and that their main focus is not um personal injury or that they just do the adjustment.
Speaker 4:they have to do rehabilitation okay yeah either a sports chiropractor or a chiropractic neurologist. Because chiropractic? Because chiropractor or a chiropractic neurologist?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be good.
Speaker 4:Because chiropractic neurologists are training how to do concussion rehabilitation and all that yeah and they do a lot of them.
Speaker 2:So, either of those will be the best ones.
Speaker 4:Red flag, number one where from. Number two would be if they only do adjustments like you said, whereupon number two would be if they only do adjustments, like you said. If they try, if it's a chain, that's a huge red flag Like don't go to a chain.
Speaker 1:Just like the.
Speaker 2:Well, this way stuff Pass down, pass down, pass down.
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, I think those will be the most. You're in Canada, right, he's in Canada as well. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would go to the social media check out, like what they do. Um, that's how we get a lot of our patients, because you know they see chiropractic and they're like, oh no, this is another chiropractor. But then they go to our social media and they see that we do a lot of rehab nutrition. Um, I barely post anything of adjustment.
Speaker 3:First of all, because, yeah, first of all because I don't. I'm not a huge fan of posting my patients in social media. I do a couple because they say like, oh yeah, post me, but I don't like it. I know that feeling.
Speaker 2:I don't like posting my clients.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I feel that social media should be more educational and for patients to see what we actually do and confirm like, oh they are, they are cool, let me go to them.
Speaker 4:Anyone can cry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I can do it.
Speaker 1:It probably won't go well.
Speaker 2:Well, Liam, you want to try me yeah.
Speaker 1:Now in moderation is hosted by one individual.
Speaker 3:You just get the dinger device. Oh just tie it to a door and go like and throw yourself. Don't worry, I'm not going to just get a towel, I'm not some kind of hack.
Speaker 2:That's only just going to use a bathroom towel.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make sure I get the real Nike type device.
Speaker 2:You know the name brand.
Speaker 1:Wow, he's giving me special treatment. Make sure I get the real nike type device. You know the name brand. I'll find out what your deficient is as well. Hey, can you hold this?
Speaker 4:yes, you can you need potassium? Look at that, you're holding it right there. You know what he needs bananas, because I know that rob doesn't like bananas. I'm out.
Speaker 1:I'm out Rob hates bananas so much I try to always bring it back to his.
Speaker 4:I saw a video like an old video, of you guys talking like yesterday it randomly came up and it was like oh, I love bananas I'm going to throw this in the podcast. Somehow, you did your research and you had to mention potassium, so technically, you're a fall.
Speaker 1:We try and bring up every time that people need to exercise and get every person we bring on to say that and we try and bring up that.
Speaker 2:Rob hates bananas.
Speaker 1:Those are the two things, so we've hit both of those, we hit both of them.
Speaker 2:We are completed.
Speaker 4:I hate you all and the adjustment helps people with colic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've got to find out about the dad. Answer the phone, hopefully he's okay. We will find out momentarily.
Speaker 4:That was really random.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Those are scary, seriously, seriously. You know like you talk about, like the damage. You know spine's pretty strong, but fucking car crash is stronger. Car crash beats spine a lot of the time most, most of the time, yeah, it beats most yeah, I mean listen. You ever see those videos like the crash test dummies? Yeah, they like, hit them into the wall and they're just like I'm just like yeah, no chiropractor's gonna be able to do anything with that, that's what do you mean?
Speaker 3:we're just gonna test the potassium we'll put this on you.
Speaker 1:Does that feel warm?
Speaker 4:that person is referred to a funeral home, sadly.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, there's a red flag If a chiropractor has deals with a next-door funeral home red flag.
Speaker 4:Don't go to that chiropractor.
Speaker 1:We had our fair share of crazy people in our profession. Oh, and, like, every profession has that. Like you know, dr Gundry was likea cardiothoracic surgeon and now he's gone completely off the deep end. People ask me like, but he's a doctor? And I'm like, yeah, cool, every other doctor disagrees with him and he tells people smoking is healthy. Like, what do you think Like deep down? What do you think like deep down? What do you actually do you think? Do you believe this guy?
Speaker 4:he also sells like every supplement for the longest time we've known that, yeah, smoking is not good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I mean like in the 20s, they called him like coffin nails, like they weren't, like it wasn't even like. Even back then people knew this wasn't good. Oh gosh.
Speaker 3:And not because you are 4.0, it means that you're the best.
Speaker 4:Oh, that is a really good one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we know so many people that they were straight A's and they're the worst.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, maybe it's a lot of those people are very smart and I don't like, if you're getting straight A's, you're you. I think we think of like smartness as a whole, like someone smart so they're good, they're smart at everything, like they're just like around smart, whereas like it's more like people are really good at specific things. Yes, like you look at like somebody. A classic example like Einstein was very smart when it came to physics, of course, but then in other aspects he wasn't so great. He was an average person or maybe below average. And so some of these people, they're great at that, and then maybe they're not great at other things, or maybe they are just really smart and they know how well to sell out and how much money they can make by selling all this extra stuff, because that's where, that's where the money comes, the money you can make with, with supplements every time I see I'm just like that's.
Speaker 1:That's insane man. The profit margin like it costs pennies. It literally costs like pennies to make, like oh you know, and the the bottle costs as much as the actual supplement itself.
Speaker 4:I know, and that is one of the issues that I have with you know, because I I I practice. You know, I use supplements in my practice whenever generally someone needs it and I go like how do people make so much money? Oh yeah, they oversell yeah the patient random ass stuff for no apparent reason.
Speaker 1:The greens powders are a great example. Atlantic greens cost about $100 to $120 per bag, which is like $50. Serving something like that, the margins are insane. What's the deal, rob? Oh, turn it back. He's unmuting himself not yet there you go.
Speaker 2:I had to find where the unmute was. Uh, everything okay. Um, everything's okay. I have to drive out there tomorrow oh no to uh, because his, his vehicle's completely totaled okay, yeah, so in his uh trailer because you know we were going to a family camping thing.
Speaker 2:So I have to drive out there which I was going to drive out there anyway to actually do the camping. But now I'm going to be driving out there with my truck to change the trailer hitch over to mine and I'll be the one pulling the trailer back Busted car.
Speaker 1:that's fine. You can always get a new vehicle. Was there anything else, rob? That you wanted to bring up or anything. I think we got almost an hour. That's pretty solid.
Speaker 2:I don't know if there's anything else you wanted to bring up for you two, for T tates and mike, we got to hit the wellness way and, oh yeah, chiropractic actually makes sense now, right, yeah, I want to go, yeah just because I yeah so it's like I don't, I don't, I don.
Speaker 2:I think my, my my big goal from this episode was to be able to come out of it and actually answer somebody's question when they say, should I go to a chiropractor, without just being a blunt no because everyone on social media sucks. Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, guys, guys guys, I totally forgot.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're still here. Okay, I want to ask you something I want, some good insults that I can send to a chiropractor when I get in a fight with them. Ok, so like is there an equivalent for chiropractors like you probably?
Speaker 3:there's a. There's like a we call it a cult. Actually it's um upper cervical people and actually michael is an upper cervical but he's one of the cool ones, but upper cervical I got certified in three techniques, so I can.
Speaker 4:I can talk about it pretty well.
Speaker 3:I can talk if you go and say like oh, I hurt my big toe, oh, let me adjust your c1, we'll take care of it.
Speaker 1:Everything is everything, everything c1, like everything c1. Yeah, so they're super philosophical so if someone comes, in
Speaker 2:oh boy, c1, never c2.
Speaker 4:Yes, yes, I think that's the best one, yeah so if someone says something, they say oh, probably you need your C1 adjusted. That's why.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good.
Speaker 3:You can refer the reference to the green book, the philosophical book.
Speaker 1:Oh, the green book. Yeah, there's something there. Okay, I'll have to think about that, but that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Liam, get yourself a green binder.
Speaker 3:Yeah, come out on stage according to this.
Speaker 1:I just need to adjust your c1 let me just I mean that's good for a video. I need something I can hit him in the comments with, just like oh, oh, oh.
Speaker 3:What is this cool um? Is it logan the the brown, the brown thumb oh is it logan? Yeah, it's logan, yeah, so it's good though but they invented the cox's adjustment, so you can either do so they. You can either do it outside, which is that the one I do, if I need to, or you have to go inside because the coccyx is going in, so they have to, and pull it out and they call it.
Speaker 4:They nickname it the brown yeah, I know if a patient needs that.
Speaker 3:I'm like nope, I'm referring out, I'm not going in there. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. I like it Okay. I got some good insults. Now I think I can throw some chiropractors away. I'm happy.
Speaker 4:Just tag me, I can back you up, yeah.
Speaker 2:What kind of lube would you like for your brown thumb? For brown thumb.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great. Yeah, oh that's great. Yeah, you wouldn't know. A c1 adjustment from a coccyx one without, and then, oh, I can work. Brown thumb into there. There's yeah, there's some good stuff there.
Speaker 4:I got it you're not gonna sleep today you're just gonna, you're gonna get your journal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like you wouldn't know, a c1 from a coccyx adjustment um liam is gonna have a vision board, even if you're brown with them even if you're gonna have the vision board with all the quotes and pictures and everything strings attached to it.
Speaker 1:You know I wanna listen. If they're gonna scare everyone about fucking you know seed oils and everything like that, at least gonna hit them with some shit like I gotta be, I gotta have some fun with it yep, yep, seed oils is always the answer, especially when it lowers the inflammatory markers sounds like an awesome plan.
Speaker 4:My dude yeah, they are inflammatory but, it decreases your marker. So that's yeah, I think that's awesome. Oh gosh, I I like um debating people with anything like that and people are very. Sometimes it's just a quick google search. You don't even have to read the research like sometimes it's just plain there in, like the first yeah I don't know, yeah, but a lot of people get their information from like blogs and shit like that.
Speaker 1:You know, like it's just from like mr smith from new york, wrote a blog this way yeah, if you have a phone and you know internet access you can pretty much say anything and you can get people to believe you. Man, I'll tell you like it's really if it's on facebook, it's real pretty much there's.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's so much shit, I think I think that pretty much covers the basic understanding of chiropractic medicine yeah yeah roughly right, go outside lane, sell people on minor, minor adjustments that they have to come back to over and over again and then top it off with some. Can you hold this? No, okay, you need this supplement yeah, yeah, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1:No, I think I'm going with the plot. Was it applied to kinesiology?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going with that.
Speaker 1:and then I'm going to sell supplements and people are always just going to be deficient in what I sell or whatever is the cheapest, so I'm going to look at whatever supplement is the cheapest to make and sell Mostly, not magnesium Mostly yeah, if it's great, I'm going to get the cheapest form of magnesium and I'll just say it's the best. And then I will just tell them they're deficient in that because magnesium is like popular right now.
Speaker 4:And then I'll just sell them that you can get a. You can get a hydrogenized water, because water doesn't have hydrogen.
Speaker 1:Yeah we have, so we're selling alpha water now. We've come to this in a few podcasts. So it's alpha water. I drink it because I ain't no beta bitch is what we've come up with, and so I'm going to sell that as well.
Speaker 4:Okay, that's for sure, coming soon. Coming soon. Alpha water, hydrogen ions.
Speaker 1:Multiple With extra hydrogen. Alpha water with extra hydrogen.
Speaker 2:You know, it's going to be? Yeah, just nothing but hydrogen atoms and alpha atoms.
Speaker 1:You know, oh, it's so hydrogenated.
Speaker 4:There's no oxygen or something. Forget lactic acid. Who cares if you have excess? It's like pure hydrogen.
Speaker 1:My water is so hydrogen rich, it's just pure hydrogen and alpha water. I ain't no beta bitch and I'm telling you I could sell.
Speaker 4:I could sell that and it would just be a can of hydrogen just have, just have like one of those big chuck dispensers like the Prima filters, and just put that water and say yeah, this cures everything but make sure it has a light under. So you know it looks cooler, make it into a red light so yeah, I'm giving you all the hacks.
Speaker 2:I don't know why you're not doing money yet, like I don't know why you're doing that we're waiting until we've got all of them combined all the pieces super yeah, why get a five dollar blood work in magnesium just?
Speaker 4:to check it out when you can just test it with a random $5, my dude, that's all it takes. It's not that crazy Basic.
Speaker 1:This hydrogen is so powerful you could fill a balloon with it.
Speaker 4:When has that ever gone poorly?
Speaker 1:Buy now.
Speaker 4:Listen, I've had people try to sell me, you know because you know they see me as a chiropractor. They think I'm into all this crap and they will like go like dude. You need to have this for your patients.
Speaker 3:It's a hydrogenated water. If you don't drink it, you're gonna get osteoarthritis.
Speaker 4:Dude. Oh, I have to share this because this is awesome for the podcast. Wait a minute. Wait, let me get comfortable, so Always get comfortable.
Speaker 2:Look at this.
Speaker 4:I got invited into this random Zoom call at night because it was like a random, like health and stuff. It was like I'm all for learning, I'm a nerd, cool Logged in. I'm a nerd, cool Logged in. Crazy lady starts talking about how she couldn't walk, she couldn't do anything and her doctor diagnosed her with osteoarthritis. Wow, what a debilitating, horrible disease. Okay, it's early stages. It's not debilitating, ma'am, it's not how it works. So, fun fact, she just says that she started drinking this water and she was better because she was detoxifying her life Of course.
Speaker 4:And me as the doctor when they say, hey, anyone has a question. And I go do you have a human randomized control trial you can send me? And she goes, I have some research I can put. She sends me a random pamphlet made in Canvacom and I'm like this is not a research, it's just a random pamphlet. And then it's like, no, there's some research in the like whatever. I'm like no, there's nothing. So so I started digging in and I found this only one article about this specific product and it had positive effects. But you know why it had positive effects. It was not hydrogenated water, it was spring mineral water and the people who were drinking were deficient in the minerals inside the water, so they felt better yep, that's, but for most people a pamphlet is really all you need, like that's probably more than what you need.
Speaker 1:Oh, you probably don't even need the pamphlet, but for, like the naysayers give them a pamphlet.
Speaker 4:You're all set like oh my god water it has hydrogen wow, elementary chemistry yeah like I don't know. So that's. I wanted to share that with you guys.
Speaker 2:I know you were gonna like that, but some shirtless guy in a grocery store told me otherwise, and he's shirtless in a grocery store.
Speaker 4:He's got and he's beefed up.
Speaker 1:So you always have to believe the beefed up guy listen, we'll have the affiliate codes for all of these things when we sell out and you guys can join and then you can just be one of every other chiropractor that has decided to sell out and make money there you go, reasons why we're trying to change or add into our careers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because damn okay did we get their info while I was gone?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, we got to do that. Okay, hey, where can people find you on the social meds?
Speaker 3:so you can find us by move forward Cairo. That's like our practice, um social media. That's in um Instagram Tik TOK Facebook.
Speaker 2:And then practice moving forward, got it.
Speaker 3:And then um Michael also has your gaming chiropractor.
Speaker 4:That's where he that's where I ran.
Speaker 3:He ran yeah, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:I just assumed it was where you, like, tried to crack people with your butt while you're, yeah, steering the game, getting angry. That's why you're getting angry, isn't it? It's because, like everything, they're not settling down. They're trying to move through my needs through enough.
Speaker 4:I need a brown thumb. I need a brown thumb adjustment. I need a brown thumb adjustment. That's what I need.
Speaker 1:I have solved the issue. Every one of my social media outlets is a ranting outlet. That's all I do, so it works perfectly.
Speaker 2:It is, it's all he does.
Speaker 4:But yeah, if anyone ever needs us, we're in Tampa.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're in Tampa.
