In Moderation
Providing health, nutrition and fitness advice in moderate amounts to help you live your best life.
Rob: Co-host of the podcast "In Moderation" and fitness enthusiast. Rob has a background in exercise science and is passionate about helping others achieve their health and fitness goals. He brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the show, providing valuable insights on topics such as calories, metabolism, and weight loss.
Liam: Co-host of the podcast "In Moderation" and new father. Liam has a background in nutrition and is dedicated to promoting a balanced and sustainable approach to health and wellness. With his witty and sarcastic style, Liam adds a unique flavor to the show, making it both informative and entertaining.
In Moderation
EvidenceNutrition: Fear-Mongering, Fact-Checking, and Finding Truth in Nutrition
What drives nutrition experts up the wall? In this candid, unfiltered conversation with EvidenceNutrition (Edin), Liam, and Rob dive deep into the most frustrating myths and misconceptions plaguing the nutrition space today.
The gloves come off as they tackle head-on the absurdity of claims like "pomegranates make your breasts perkier" while breaking down why study methodology matters and why some claims are too ridiculous to even warrant scientific investigation. Through equal parts exasperation and humor, they expose the tactics used by content creators who prioritize engagement over accuracy.
From the demonization of carbohydrates—"the primary energy source of the body"—to unfounded fears about seed oils and diet sodas, the conversation reveals how nuanced nutritional science gets flattened into misleading black-and-white narratives on social media. For Edin, who lives with Type 1 diabetes, these mischaracterizations aren't just annoying—they can be potentially dangerous.
The episode takes a fascinating turn when the three break down the exact formula for creating viral fear-mongering content: take a beloved product, claim it contains something "banned in Europe," create a shocking visual, and watch the views roll in regardless of accuracy. This insider perspective helps listeners develop a critical eye for the content they consume.
Perhaps most revealing is their discussion about creator integrity and brand deals, where they share stories about declining lucrative offers from companies whose products they couldn't honestly endorse. It's a rare glimpse into the ethical challenges nutrition content creators face in an industry where financial incentives can sometimes encourage compromise.
Want to cut through the noise and understand which nutrition claims deserve your attention? This episode delivers equal parts entertainment and education from three creators committed to evidence over engagement.
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Dude, it's so funny and I would love to hear your guys' thoughts on this, because I feel like we make predominantly similar content. I do, however, want to credit to Rob on. I really like his take on texture-based reviews of things. First of all, that's fucking iconic. I just like it's one of those things that, when you did it, I was like that makes so much sense. Why don't more people do that? But nobody does so. Anyway, I appreciate them, but I digress.
Speaker 1:What I was getting into was I think it's really incredible how you just start by being like you know, I'm going to make a video about you because what you're saying doesn't make sense. And then, all of the negative comments aside, you're like well, this person is also making videos that don't make sense. I'm going to correct that and I'm going to correct this piece of misinformation. I'm going to correct this. And then, all of a sudden, you're like well, in Liam's case, you've got a whole host of followers and you're like damn now what I say and in all of our cases I'm not trying to take away from neither of us, rob nor myself but it's like you really have to there's an expectation behind what you say. I think your voice carries something which is weird. I'm still coming to terms with that. But to your point, it's still the same level of planning, like on the back end it's still the exact same, like nah, I don't, that's misinformation. I'm going to talk about that and try to explain that in a way that me an idiot will understand.
Speaker 2:So Right, I mean I have pretty much given up and I just call them numpties and like laugh about it and tell them great word, because yeah, I, I, I'm a big Muppets guy. Yeah, I don't give a shit like anymore. I don't care about like. I'm not going to decide to study. No, fuck you. What you're saying is stupid.
Speaker 3:Almost listening knows it's stupid, so we're just gonna laugh at how stupid, oh god. In in my recent video about the, the synthetic vitamins, yeah, it's somebody asking me for a study proving my point. And I'm like you. You need a study, yeah, yeah, to learn that vitamins have no calories. Are you serious right now?
Speaker 2:oh, one of my top comments on a video that one woman that's, like my dad's, the highest paid nutritionist in the state of and she and she just does the most wild shit and I just said no, no, no. That was my whole video, was just saying no. And I had people like, why won't you refute their claims? She just said eating pomegranates will make your tits perkier. I'm not going to cite a study on that. No, just no. That is my response.
Speaker 1:On a serious note, I don't know if we're recording right now, but for people to get value from just thinking about that, how would you study that? What is a marker that you would like to first pick? Get your target audience of people and then start force-feeding them, pomegranate, and somehow controlling, and then you'd have to control for the other variables right, and then all the data collection and paying all of the people to be able to do this, because you know government grants don't exist anymore.
Speaker 2:So, like um, yeah, hello and welcome to, in moderation, where we're talking about how pomegranates can make your tits perkier, because my dad is the highest paid nutritionist, or do you have a panel that comes in and judges them?
Speaker 1:yeah, is it. Is it by hand feel? Is it like do we like you know how we judge mouth feel?
Speaker 2:like do it each time right, so we need some control.
Speaker 3:How do you do a double blind placebo double blind rct of of tip perkiness measurement feel to you today a little bit perkier.
Speaker 2:How much perkier on a scale like I, that's. Yeah, obviously you have pictures and stuff. So like I think no, I think we could we could definitely get this done for that one guy that wanted to know about you know what studies there are about pomegranates on making women's tits perkier?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's. It's funny that you say that. I think the moment I, like my brain was like, okay, like I used to put in four plus hours in each video, and I'm sure it's the same for you guys when, yeah, like for me I'm going to admit something publicly that I don't think I've ever admitted. I don't know if you guys are recording, but I'll admit it to you guys, I don't know off the top of my head. Every single study, every single year it came out Like I know I've read a study and how it has roughly gone, and then I will review it. And so when I see a video I'll be like, oh, that reminds me of this study. I roughly remember how it went, roughly remember. Maybe I'll remember what school it was from, where it was conducted. It was Canadian study, american study, chinese, whatever and so then I'll look it up and then confirm the details in the video. And so I was doing that too, where I was making four hour long, it would take me at least four hours between you know, concept, ideation and the actual filming and editing and whatever. So I then realized those.
Speaker 1:Actually my brother, who is a business guy, kind of told me nobody gives a fuck, um. And I was like true, uh, okay, and that was honestly valid feedback, because I am communicating to people like him, I'm not communicating to jerk myself off. And when I got to that realization, like it was, it was honestly that was a really tough pill for me to swallow, was like I'm like I used to think, I was like I'm doing the right thing by showing them the studies and I was like, not realistically, I'm just providing some mental masturbation here. So I decided to transition to, like you said, which was some when it's like just blatantly obvious and they're just making claims and you there's no point to even cite a study, it's it's fine to point and laugh, but I still like to try to make sure I'm not just launching an ad homonym which actually you do quite well, liam. It's like, uh, you'll laugh about the concept without the person.
Speaker 2:Sometimes the idea is to bring. So like that's what comedy is, to bring its lot to its logical conclusion, right, it's it's extreme.
Speaker 2:You just bring it to its extreme like, yes, this is why americans are unhealthy because they're eating too many canned vegetables. Do you hear how fucking stupid that sounds Like you have to. Just you have to try and show people like I'm not. I don't give a fuck about the actual person Like Jillian Michaels who gives a shit. I can't believe people even care about what she says anymore. But like the thing she's saying, I just have to laugh at it because it's so privileged and absurd.
Speaker 1:And what else. Yeah, yeah, uh, jillian, and you know the whole cast of the movement currently, but yeah, it's, uh, it's a really, really interesting world we live in. By the way, shout out, I don't know if you guys can see it, no, you can't, but I always keep some, you know, canned soup, right?
Speaker 3:here shout out to canned soup.
Speaker 1:Well, um, transparency, disclosure I I do make some posts on behalf of a company that does white label canning of fruits and vegetables. So sometimes, technically, my posts are sponsored by Big Can. They don't go by that, but I do make it abundantly clear and I think I'm pretty transparent about it. But I know it's important to point that out. So that's why I take off the label, because they do it for many companies Right. So if I share one, it could be particular. That's why people are always like wait, who's sponsoring this? Whenever it says paid ad, they're always like wait, who's sponsoring this? Like big aluminum, and I'm like kind of kind of, but yeah, um, so. So that's why I keep them unlabeled.
Speaker 2:Rob, do you want to just like start the podcast now, or do you want to just like roll shit from that into?
Speaker 3:We're rolling, we're rolling, we're rolling. That's my question.
Speaker 2:I'm like where are we at with this? I'm just trying to figure this out because I have some things I want to bring up and discuss. Should we have him introduce himself or should we just go the whole episode without him doing it?
Speaker 1:at all and people are like who the fuck was that I don't know. He never said his name. Yeah, so I'll introduce myself. My name is Edin, or you may know me online as Evidence Nutrition. Still, no idea how I got that name. I was just kind of plugging things into. I was at a conference actually plugging names into Instagram, and then I just got it and I was like cool, that's awesome. Everyone kept telling me Edin Vince Nutrition because my name is Edin and I'm like, no, no, just evidence, You're overthinking this guys. So yeah, and then my friend who made this sign for me is the one that was actually trying to make it Edin Vince Nutrition.
Speaker 2:But thankfully, I convinced him otherwise. That's a reach. Holy shit you need to. I like I need what kind of shoes you're wearing, because that's a fucking leap and a half right there to get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's incredible, it's incredible stuff. But yeah, I mean, I've always been um anti-pseudo science. I've talked about it on a few podcasts in the past, but kind of the way I got into the industry for people who are your listeners but not mine, um, are I. I have type diabetes, which is, I think, important context, and so that is also what got me into nutrition in the first place, nutrition and dietetics. I went and did a degree, a Bachelor of Applied Science, in nutrition and dietetics and then, further on, did some postgraduate work as well in sport and exercise, nutrition and so. But what got me into it initially was I don't want to single out this one experience, but pretty much my going to see a Chinese medicine doctor, and now I'm not out here, um, hating on anyone for any profession they choose.
Speaker 1:There is some science to back some of the things that they do. Most of what I went through was not backed by science. It was backed by pse through was not backed by science. It was backed by pseudoscience and feelings and vibes. So, uh, that was an expensive learning lesson for me, because I don't come from money, I'm not financially well off, um, and so, especially at the time. You know, obviously, thankfully, I've been okay to make a living for myself now and I work extremely hard. I pump out content while working full-time. By the way, full content creation is not my full-time gig. Um, although I try to do, it Can't really be in Canada, can it?
Speaker 2:No right, exactly so and and so to which is actually something is your Canadian? We cannot leave that out, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, um, so anyway, I I kind of got into it. Because I got into nutrition, I remember, because I was like so upset as, like a 16, 17-year-old diabetic kid who, you know, my parents just want to do everything they can to get rid of diabetes, right, and I still understand them right, like I've talked about this on many podcasts I'm not saying it to harp on my parents, and I think they know that now. Harp on my parents and I think they know that now. But it is important for other parents, because I know I have a lot that listen to me, a lot of parents of diabetics, to know that, like you don't, you know, sometimes the best thing that the kid can have is a normal upbringing, because they don't have a normal upbringing.
Speaker 1:I also played, you know, lower level professional tennis. So I try to balance those two things. Nutrition was always kind of the thing in between. So, following that path, I kind of went down the dietetics route and I always had a thing against pseudoscience. I always hated when people misrepresented things like marketing is something that I've always butted heads with. Now I've grown to appreciate marketing, but I look at it through a very skeptical lens. So, you know, even when people say, like I had a post the other day, I was reviewing Truly Cereal.
Speaker 3:It's a protein cereal and I saw that that was an actual Canadian thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're a Canadian brand and it was not an ad, by the way, not an ad, but I did disclose that they sent it to me for free ad, by the way, not an ad, but I did disclose that they sent it to me for free. And so I thought I personally would like to watch someone review all of the flavors and what they have to say about it. And I was honest, you know, I said that I didn't really like the chocolate one and it is what it is Right. But it was with that that, like, I had a few comments where people were going, hey, this is expensive and I go, fair enough, like it's. But I also don't see it as like it's important to see what the product is Like it's not.
Speaker 1:I think that product market is a tough one in general, but you know, protein rich cereals, because you shouldn't, you shouldn't like, you shouldn't, as the consumer, purchase it as if it's the same cereal that you bought before, because it's not the same thing. But that's how they're marketed. Right, they're marketed as it's just a replacement for cereal. But let's be real, uh, 15 or 11, depending on how you buy it, and you know, whatever, 11 and 15 versus four or five I mean, cereal is pretty expensive now too, anyway, but like five or six dollars, let's say and you get way like the boxes are a normal size, is like a family size, like this, and then the box you get from truly is like way smaller.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and I I was transparent about that, right like the, the brand was still happy with what I said. The brand was still happy about things. They got exposure, they got whatever they needed. But, you know, I had a lot of people reaching out about oh well, they market themselves as better for the gut and I go well, yeah, but that's like a super fun, like I'm. I'm happy you pointed that out. Let's have a conversation about that, because did they lie? No, you know, if it's like lactose free, for example, would that be better for somebody? Their product is not lactose free, but their product was, I believe it was marketed as gluten-free and therefore better for some people. And so they're like well, 50% of the population is lactose intolerant, but they're not lactose-free and I go, okay, well, they can still market it as that without appealing to lactose-free.
Speaker 2:You're definitely into the people are going to complain about anything part and I just I've gotten to the point where I'm like past that. I'm just like, yeah, no, you're just gonna, you're gonna be upset, that's fine. And like, yeah, protein, I'm not. Listen, there's no way. I'm paying like 10. Here in the united states, where we don't pay canadian dollars for things, it's usually like 10 dollars yeah, yeah and there's no way I'm fucking paying that shit.
Speaker 2:First off, most of them taste like sawdust. Have you tried? Have you tried? Eat your mouth off cereal? Eat your mouth. I want to rip my mouth off after I taste it. It is probably the worst thing I've ever put in my mouth and that is saying something. It is truly a horrifying process and I paid nearly ten dollars for get fucked. I can get protein other places. Protein, listen, I'd like protein support. It doesn't need to be shoved up the butthole of every single product in the store you don't need. You don't need protein cereal it's. If you want it, sure that's cool. Go cereal. I tried it like this is fine. Still not gonna pay ten dollars for it. No, thank you.
Speaker 1:I agree if you're a professional bodybuilder, but anyway, that rant over, so I want to ask you what is like because you do like the, the debunking stuff what's the thing that you see that pisses what?
Speaker 2:oh, cut now. Can you hear me? Can you hear me? Can you hear me now? Can you hear?
Speaker 1:me now. You're good, you're good, you're good, okay, yeah, um, I want to ask you what's the thing?
Speaker 2:because you do a lot of the debunking things what's the thing that you see that you're like just pisses you off the most? When somebody's fear-mongering, a specific ingredient or whatever it is like, what's the thing that just drives you the craziest?
Speaker 1:well, definitely, where there's like a marketing incentive and then, no matter what you say, they're like I have a whole bunch of people that'll be like I'm. You know, I have some sort of agency paying me to say what I say. I think that's probably the most uh, one of the most annoying things recently, but um, the most annoying ingredient.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like either ingredient or something like or something like yeah I mean seed oils gets me rubbed the wrong way a lot, and the reason why I think that is is because I quote, unquote, defend. I don't defend anything.
Speaker 2:I just want to make that abundantly clear I'm not defending what you do I actually, actually I'm an advocate for gallons of seed oils every day that's what you think I'm actually the global seed ambassador we don't know that all canadians are in big canola's pocket right it's called canada oil. That's. That's right, you clearly, yeah, it's in the name. For fuck's sake, um so.
Speaker 1:so I think that one's a big one because it's it's like, like it's a super simple concept, but it's nuanced at the same time, and the one simple bit of nuance that we seem to be forgetting is like can seed oils be bad? Yes, when they're reheated plenty of times, when you consume a fuckload of them, when you like. There are just these like it's just like one step in each direction and yes, they could be bad, like you jump off the cliff of bad right but.
Speaker 2:But they're not inherently bad inherently they're not bad.
Speaker 1:No, and any argument that you want to suggest, it's like I I literally have like a binder of oh, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no. No to to the carnivore crowd that's usually fear mongering seed oils. It does not matter if you eat off a cutting board, you don't give a shit about research. Ok, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:They just chat GPT, like everybody just puts my sources through chat GPT. And my favorite, by the way, to you, absolute fucktards who think that I don't know when you use chat GPT, dead fucking giveaway. I could even tell you what prompts you used, because it's usually what are the flaws of this study? That's what they'll copy paste and then put my pmids in and then it'll read through it and it's it'll. Yeah, it'll get some things that are like flaws, but all studies have flaws, every single one. So that's fucking. So that's another thing that people want to in, like the cherry picking is like even within the studies that they'll send. That's one of the things that I struggle with the most is like when somebody seems willing to actually have a discussion but then their bias actually clouds their ability to like have an argument in good faith.
Speaker 2:When someone has a confirmation bias like that, it does not matter what you say, so I will initiate me like OK, can we talk about this? No, you only care. Okay, no, I'm done, I don't it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have a one message limit, man, it's one message and I know right away let me tell you the thing that pisses me off the most it's carbs you thought I was gonna say fucking diet soda all right, it's close, but fucking carbs holy shit I. Oh my god, yeah, it's I don't know if you have a video listeners, but my shirt says high carbs, high carbs.
Speaker 3:Sorry about that my bad, no diet, so it's up there.
Speaker 2:I'll get there in a second, but fucking the primary energy source of the body like the thing that has kept like how it's the fucking and like, okay, I get sugar to an agree to a degree. Like I understand, a lot of americans are over consuming added sugar and added sugar doesn't come with any real nutrients outside of just the calories that it has. Right, yeah, yeah, so I get that. But then to take that's added sugar.
Speaker 1:We're specifically added sugar. Added sugar right but like.
Speaker 2:But even then like them just taking all sugar and just being like, okay, it's bad, like still frustrating, still don't like yeah, but to then extrapolate even further and be like carbohydrates are the problem, bitch. Yeah, holy shit, like carbohydrates. I, I, I. It drives me to fucking, it drives me into insanity, especially like everything like oh, potatoes, the moment I talk about like potatoes, oh, it spikes your insulin, so fucking whatever right, oh, insulin.
Speaker 2:You know the normal response like you, you fucking should know, you know I know quite well, actually, it doesn't normally fucking happen in my body.
Speaker 1:So it's it's uh, every, every time somebody has that like where they? First of all, my favorite is uh, because there is a okay you, you, you tweaked a nerve on this one. Actually, a little bit. It's the uh, the fact when people say, like, when they talk about insulin responses, yes, and I go no, what you mean to say is there's a blood glucose response, there's a rise in insulin. I'm like, no, what you're talking about is a blood glucose response, which then insulin is responding to, which is fucking normal, yes, but in my case it doesn't.
Speaker 1:I don't, yeah, doesn't happen. It's off to the side there in the other side of the room, but I have to take an injection and then it can happen because I use exogenous insulin, which, if you know, which then kind of appeases that appeal to nature fallacy. If I eat anything naturally in a large enough quantity, I will die like anything, literally anything, if, if I just wanted to live my life naturally, which, again, that's one where people try to manipulate specific audiences, like type one, type two diabetics, and then they'll say like, oh yeah, the carnivore diet, the keto diet, whatever, insert diet here fucking fasting, and then they're like, did this help you with your insulin? And I'm like, uh well, I'm alive and my pancreas still doesn't work, so I don't like no.
Speaker 2:You're in a clear picture that insulin is very important and that we need it.
Speaker 1:Oh, extremely, extremely and like and like. Thank God, your brain works. I mean, in the cases of some of these people, not very well, but if they had a few more insulin spikes, maybe a lot better. But yeah, like, I don't think people have an insulin sensitivity problem because they consumed beans or because they consumed rice.
Speaker 2:granted, you could you bring up like beans or something like oh, that's how you get diabetes. Really, really fucking like vegetables and legumes are what give people diabetes.
Speaker 1:I really I find that hard to believe and and you know what, and I feel for I just want everyone to know like, while I will acknowledge that I have a confirmation bias, perhaps around canned food items, because I have been paid in the past by a company that makes canned food items, but I seeked out that engagement financially because I believe in canned food, canned food products. I believe in it as a good resolution for folks that are struggling with food security, which is something that you're saying people that have struggle struggles getting food.
Speaker 2:Them getting food is a good thing. Is what you're saying. I think so. Do you disagree? Just making sure? I just want to make sure we're clear on that and like it's, I think uh, I'm.
Speaker 1:I think I'll have to brush up on the exact statistic in the US, but I believe it's like in Canada. It's over 20% of Canadians face food insecurity at some point. I believe it's around 17 to 15,. 17% of Americans have faced at some point in their life food insecurity or, um, or not known. I forget how they word that statistic, but again.
Speaker 2:I know statistics are malleable or whatever. It is the way they yeah where they don't know where their next meal is going to come from.
Speaker 1:So, uh, that's enough for me to be like, okay, yes, we have an abundance of these foods that are like, easy to over consume. And, yes, clearly, given that we have an obesity problem, we have a large component of perhaps hormonal problems, genetic problems, but also a massive issue with not moving as much and a massive issue with uh, quite simply put right, I'm going to remove a little bit of nuance here, but, quite simply put, not moving as much and eating more calories than our energy demands require.
Speaker 2:Listen, where do a lot of the calories come from? Well, you know, for a lot of people added sugars, but sugar from things like soda. So when people then decide to go with a diet soda, that has essentially zero calories. No, that shit ain't good enough. If you're not drinking water, you might as well start your whole journey over then and just eat fucking steaks off a cutting board and slather them in avocado. That's the shit I see, and it just drives me crazy like.
Speaker 1:You know what. You know what that makes me laugh about? Liam is uh, I'll see a lot of these comments across our pages. Uh, anybody that's in the space or dr ids too like, and I'll open it up. Have you ever opened up the profile of those folks that are saying like? Just drink water, bro, it's always the just drink water bro drink water first of all, weaponized religion in the form of their caption or their bio.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:That's all I'm going to say. I'm not going to say anything else. Some random Bible verse, which I'm not anti-religion for what it's worth. I just think it's a funny correlation, not a causation. Anti-weaponized religion I am definitely anti-weaponized extremism or anti-weaponized religion. I am definitely anti-weaponized extremism or anti-weaponized religion, for sure. Yes, uh, the other one, the other one, almost always. Oh, hey, that was fun almost always for all the people listening.
Speaker 3:We just got balloons. Yeah, we got balloons. That was fun.
Speaker 1:Almost always they'll in their like last four or five pictures which they don't post a lot. But if they do post on social media in their last four or five pictures you'll see't post a lot. But if they do post on social media in their last four or five pictures you'll see them double fisting a beer and or maybe optional, hanging a fish too.
Speaker 2:Like it's like these people that say, like don't drink diet soda, don't do this.
Speaker 3:They often smoke cigarettes and fucking drink alcohol and you're just like regularly, yeah, like they're usually not in the best of shape ascotame is not gonna fucking take me out, like it tries like and and and.
Speaker 2:That's another thing that fucking drives me insane. It's lately I've been talking about this. It's just like oh, stevie is better because it's natural, and like oh, that's just the fucking appeal to appeal to nature like aspartame's been around for like we've. We've been studying it longer. I feel more comfortable drinking something with aspartame than stevia. Not that I'm saying stevie is bad.
Speaker 3:It's probably fine too, but like yeah, the amount of processing that stevia has to go through in order to get on the store shelf.
Speaker 2:At that point aspartame probably is less processed and maybe I'm saying it just because I also hate stevia, like I just hate the taste of it the taste?
Speaker 1:yeah, it just doesn't taste good man like.
Speaker 2:It's not. It's not, it's the bad sweet, it's the bad sweet it, it's the bad sweet it doesn't.
Speaker 1:I have a. I think I have a maybe an unpopular take on this. Yeah, I think Stevia does have a little bit of an interesting flavor which, like maybe monk fruit, can like replace, but I don't really think it does that good of a job either. But sugar alcohols and and aspartame I think sugar alcohols are one of my favorite because they, while they might make your tummy hurt sometimes, I find for me as someone with a massive appetite that's like and diabetes also reminder diabetes uh, both diabetes and sugar alcohols kind of help me portion control because I naturally can't produce insulin. So I'm like shit, I can't overeat candy that much anymore, or else I want to vomit. And then also sugar alcohols make my stomach hurt, so I'm like, ok, well, I can't overconsume it, I'll just have a small amount, and so that's my portion control.
Speaker 1:I'm forced.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it's my force. I'm going to be up all night shitting myself.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. It's my hot take, but I also like to give myself small amounts of like controlled struggle in my life. So if I feel like I'm, it's like, it's like a weird way, I like to make sure that I'm struggling all the time you didn't have influencer on social media wasn't enough struggle absolutely not never.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's never enough I, we gotta get, I, yeah, we gotta bring that up more. I like that control just a little, just like the hint of struggle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hint of struggle I call it controlled adversity is like. When I want to be like cool about it, I'm like yeah, it's controlled adversity and people like, wow, that sounds so like thought provoking. Yeah, uh, yeah, I just like to like. It's pretty much like kicking myself in the nuts just for fun.
Speaker 2:I would say like seed oils, I. I don't even get really bothered by anymore because it's almost like a meme to me. Now I just laugh at it because it's. It's just funny to me, Like, oh, you've jumped, you've clearly jumped on like the carnivore bandwagon and all the sure, whatever, like sure, whatever. I don't, I don't give a shit.
Speaker 1:I just laugh. Oh, it falls off and then it comes back, and then it falls off and then it comes back.
Speaker 2:It's crazy it's like msg of all that you know. Like we, because I think that's one thing that annoys me is like we. I felt like we had gotten over it for a while and we're like okay, it's good. And then now it's back and we're fear-mong. I think they just ran out of things to get upset by it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they ran out of material oh shit.
Speaker 2:We just did natural flavors and seed oils again. Fuck, what do we do?
Speaker 1:Oh, there's.
Speaker 2:MSG. There we go. Let's throw that in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And can we talk about natural flavors? Can? Sure they're not natural is the kind of their. Their argument is like because they they come, they have to come from a natural source, but the way that they're, they're put into food is it natural?
Speaker 2:so therefore it's bad, I guess so they're naturally derived, not 100 natural, I guess it's, it's, they're like you don't know what it is is the problem, and a lot of times with natural flavors, it's just because the company doesn't want to put exactly what's in there, because you know they have like fucking proprietary. They want their food to taste good. They don't want people copying it exactly right?
Speaker 3:yeah, because you spend a million dollars on making a formula. You put it on the back of a box.
Speaker 1:Somebody just rips it off I think I think you know what's really funny is there's always like one population of people or one demographic of people that feel that type of way about natural ingredients, but then they're also the same people that vote in line with typically again, I'm drawing a parallel here that might not exist but they also vote in line with pro-business, which is hilarious, because I feel like there's a massive misunderstanding of business, and you guys already pointed it out.
Speaker 1:But it's like I'm going to simplify this a ton. If you want to start a business that costs money X amount of money, whatever it costs If you got a product that is a food and beverage product, you probably spent a million dollars to get it into a store like a large retailer. So now you're in a large retailer and you've got GHN and BHN those two girls in your store now telling people that your product sucks because it has natural flavors. But the reason why and you guys already hinted at this the reason why it has natural flavors in general, is because that's their way of saying okay, these are the ingredients that are in it, and sometimes there's in brackets, like what the natural flavors are for right, like it's like peaches or whatever, like they'll try to say, or like apple related. But yeah, the reason they do that primarily is not to cause they want to fuck you.
Speaker 1:It's because actually in it? Well, well it's. It's exactly that. It's not. Not that they're putting any ingredients that are poisonous, they're putting ingredients that now me and you, who have a large following that person has no following. There's some random person, but now the three of us can't formulate the exact product that tastes the exact same way and push it to our followers and then make them go out of business it's like it's super simple business.
Speaker 2:What's like coke's? You know coke has their, their secret, whatever thing in the vault like their secret formula or whatever. It's that on a fucking label.
Speaker 3:It's of all the things.
Speaker 2:But really this is where I kind of just try and bring things to its logical conclusion. Has anyone been unhealthy because they consume too much natural flavors in food? Has that ever been an issue where the natural flavors is what is causing someone to be unhealthy? If it is, it is so far down the list. It's fucking negligible like we talk about exercise more, eat more whole foods and fiber and like protein, like that, the boring shit. You know what I'm saying yeah there's natural flavors on that list. I don't think you can. It's.
Speaker 1:It's in the the fine print of the fine print yeah, yeah, and and also they're typically like, I think, in the us. I don't know if many people know this, but they. The ingredients appear in list order of yeah, how much is in them by mass. So natural flavors, like nine times out of ten is the last or second last fucking last.
Speaker 2:Thing.
Speaker 1:So and because they don't have to disclose oh, there's 98 percent water in this, but most drinks there's like 98 percent water in there. It's like or 95 to 98 percent water, so it is predominantly water and then filled with whatever the other things are. It is predominantly juice and then filled with the other things. So, even if the natural ingredient contains one thing that's extremely bad for you, at what dose and how much of it would you need to consume?
Speaker 2:No, no, no, no, no they throw dose out the window, like the dose makes the poison. It's not in their fucking nomenclature, it's just like it drives me crazy, like I don't want any toxins. I don't want any toxins, I don't want any poisons. Why would I want any more? Like, well then, stop doing anything.
Speaker 1:Stop going outside, don't let the sun hit you. I know you've interacted with him a fair bit. He's actually a local to me, that GF Beef guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's a bitch. Yeah, I'll say that publicly. I'm pretty diplomatic about a lot of things, but he's a fake ass bitch. So in DMs he'll respond and, like I've actually the only post I'll say this publicly, the only post I've ever taken down was the one of him when he was doing the gas video and he said I was being mean. And I was like, okay, I kind of agree, I was being a little mean, so I took it down. I've never put it back up. It was the one where he's like, at the gas station, oh, everything's made with petroleum. And that video did like insane numbers and he accused me of all sorts of you know things like I'm trying to take advantage of the numbers and I go okay, that's what social media is about. First of all, welcome to Instagram. And so I you know, my, my, my video did great, I don't. I think it had a good turnout.
Speaker 1:I think people understood that I was not trying to just attack him. I was trying to attack his stupid ideas, which is what I do with everyone. Um, well, I don't attack everyone. Some people have really great ideas, but, um, yeah it, that one was a great example for me is just like this is uh, he's a great example of a creator, I think, that intentionally creates posts in bad faith. Yeah right, just for intentionally misrepresents everything. And then is also I don't know what they call it in English, but when they're like super nice and I think well, fake is kind of how I describe it, but they're super nice and their comments are like, oh, like little old me, and then they're just like the biggest dickhead to everyone. Uh, through through what they're saying. Their actions are different from what they're saying. You know what I mean. So I don't know. He's an interesting one that I don't want to touch with a three meter pole.
Speaker 1:But I did see him a few times and, uh, I think I spoke to liam about that, actually that I saw him in equinox. I ran into him and I said hi to him many times and this was what he he created a video in response to me that I was being creepy, that I was doing all this shit. I said no, I took a photo of you in a public space, which I'm allowed to do when I go to equinox. You did not say hi to me. I waved at you three times.
Speaker 1:I had another person with me to confirm this. They don't want to go on camera, so that's why I didn't want to like backed off from that. Uh, but I knew for a fucking fact, if I came on video and I did in that video, by the way I came on and I accused him of ignoring me and like intentionally trying to avoid confrontation from me, and so I knew, if I did that without any proof of me ever seeing him, he would just comment like oh, you didn't see me, like you just made that whole story up. And so I I posted the photo of him, and I think the reason why he didn't like it was because people were commenting on his cabs. But like, that's neither here nor there, so that's yeah, listen those.
Speaker 2:Those are the type that, just like you know, anything you know, get more eyes on you. That's what matters.
Speaker 2:Like I've seen that guy. He literally attacks everyone, anyone and everyone. It does not matter. It's kind of like just the punch up. You know the Greg Doucette method, where you just kind of keep punching up until you eventually get there, like it works, like I totally, like I totally get like clearly, but yeah, I just ignore that shit, just um, but yeah, I just ignore that shit, just kind of laugh at it, it's fun.
Speaker 2:But anyway, I want to ask you, like here's the thing to say I'm kind of curious can we create because you've seen a lot of these sort of videos, these like grocery store videos, like can we make? How would we make the most? If we were to set out and make the most like viral, like get the most views, demonizing, you know, like a certain thing video, how would we create it? That's, that's kind of what I want to go through. So first, I think like we have to be in a grocery store, right, like those are the videos that seem to like do the best here, like in a grocery store I think we need to find the grocery store that bobby films at, so that, as he's filming, we can run into frame, shove him and just start our video that's and an.
Speaker 2:I was thinking more. We're the ones creating the fear mongering video. That was more my idea. You're going to wear ourselves and we're going to go beat people up. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We're jumping out of our shoes for a second and into someone else's shoes.
Speaker 2:We are going to become the grocery store.
Speaker 1:We are, we are the. I think we have to be Airish, yes.
Speaker 2:Yes, are the air ish, yes, yes, yes, situation. So I think we need to be in a grocery store and I think this, this is there's okay. Listen, I'm gonna ask you guys there's one item I see. There's one item I see all the time, whenever people demonize it, it always gets views, always, always, always, and I get tagged in every. If someone's debunking it, I get tagged in that one. It's always just that I, what you have what? What one item do you guys see that when people demonize it, it always blows up?
Speaker 1:I mean I would say raw milk, but I don't know that. That's no, no, not to you. I don't think that's. This is something a lot of people buy.
Speaker 2:I'm going to, okay, listen, I'm going to give you a big hint right here, because it is at Costco.
Speaker 3:That's a big thing.
Speaker 1:Oh, rotisserie chicken I literally just created. I don't have a Costco.
Speaker 3:I don't think about that stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay, I just want a harmless plug. I made a YouTube video on how to make four recipes or nine meal portions over 30 grams of protein, with vegetables and stuff too Super cheap using the Costco rotisserie chicken. So that's on my YouTube Because I was so anti these people, um yeah, no and fear monger it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly now, take that meal and fucking shove it up everyone's ass. Um, so how would I? I think super important. I think super important, like these are the things I think about when I make a video that I, I know, will do well. Right, it has to have a what the fuck factor. It has to look very uh and but for those listening at home, a what the fuck factor is literally, if you see it in the first two seconds, it makes you feel unemotion, any emotion, but if it's the stronger the better. So if it literally makes you go what the fuck out loud, it'll be a great video. Um, so that's where the tarps off at the grocery stores work pretty well. Uh, because people are always. First comment is wait, how are they letting you in the grocery store with no shirt on right, like those are always people's logical thoughts. So I think that's like an easy one. I think costco's good because it's iconic people know what it looks like.
Speaker 2:You need something that people buy a lot, like costco rotisserie chicken, like it's beloved because it's still five dollars, right, like that's insane. Getting a chicken, a whole chicken, for five dollars is crazy. You're not getting that and you're not getting a raw chicken for five dollars anywhere else. So like you're getting one that's already cooked and seasoned, everything people love it. So you need to take something that is loved and go fuck you, you can't buy this anymore. That's what. That's what gets.
Speaker 1:You know the, the views I think, I think we need to first determine what is the favorite part of this. I think the logical answer here is, uh, either demonizing something specific about the dark meat, which I think most people prefer, and or the like skin, something about the skin, because any like the moment, you need to go after the like, favorite, beloved part of it to upset people and then if you upset people, it goes more viral, right?
Speaker 1:so I'd be if I'm demonizing something, I'm going dark meat or or skin somehow I I think I would go with, like another thing that I see always does.
Speaker 2:Well, it's banned in other countries. It's banned in other countries. So I would say there's something in the carasco rotisserie chicken that's banned in another country. It doesn't matter what it is, or, if it even exists, who gives a shit. It's not like they're gonna look that up yeah, I'm gonna say there's no one's gonna look that up.
Speaker 2:That are banned in other. Maybe it's chlorinated or whatever. You could go that route like it's used chlorinated chicken that's banned in europe, blah, blah, blah. That sort of bullshit I think. I think I, I think I would go with that route yeah, I, I think that's a good one.
Speaker 1:And then do something like that GF Beef guy does it really well, though I will say what he does well is like when he says it's chlorinated. He literally takes a tub. He buys a tub from Walmart. By the way, this guy is well off. He's a member at Equinox. So before you start thinking like he's not doing well in life and that's why the boo-hoo woe-is-me story he is a member at Equinox in vancouver, the most expensive downtown vancouver, the most expensive city in north america. So lick my dick. But moving on from that, um, the the like. Dunking in a in a like the visual. You have to create a visual. It's like dunking the chicken in like I. I would honestly put it dunk it in piranhas or something, and be like even the piranhas don't want to eat it.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like, like fuck, he does it in in the bleach, which is obviously misrepresenting what chlorine is. Right. Like, yeah, it doesn't matter, though, because as long as the visual makes sense, well to the average person who's not going to look it up? Um, well to to the average person who's not going to look it up. So, yeah, I think dunking it in in like piranhas would be good, or like, literally, uh, an acid that would melt your face off, but that would be a lot harder to get like a bunch of like food grade carrageenan or something.
Speaker 2:Then just dump it in on top of it Like this is what's in your food, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or say that it's lunch. Yeah, or say that it's food grade carrageenan and it's really just like a chia pudding bath.
Speaker 3:I don't know.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. And it's just like odd. And then you lift it out and it would be like that weird, like milky thick texture that chia seeds get.
Speaker 2:It's a what the fuck moment.
Speaker 3:The entire video is a what the fuck moment. I think we found the director for our alpha water commercial.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, and we're doing, uh, we're gonna be selling alpha water and the tagline is because I ain't no beta bitch and so, like you know the fuck, I am not. Yeah exactly so. You need our water and we've got yeah, it's, it's, it's gonna sell.
Speaker 1:Pretty well, we're gonna get chem thug who does a bunch of stuff like chemistry nice, give us like a bunch of buzz, how big's the, how big's the budget for this?
Speaker 1:because I think everybody needs to be wearing a big watch, like where it looks like you bought it like per gram of its size, you know what I mean you're not paying for the watch based on the name brand you're paying for, like the bigger the better kind of thing yeah, like you have, just like one of those big compasses, just like sitting on your wrist yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's just aggressively planned.
Speaker 1:it's like tied with, like what do they call it? Tweed with, like tied on with like a rope. It's not even actually a watch strap anymore. I just feel like those are always the funniest ones for me and again, that's all these video productions are. I feel like, is how can I get you to feel? And that's okay, that is one thing I will give people a play from my brain is will this give you value? Is my goal with a video is will it give you value and will it give you, will it make you feel something? So usually that's something that I'm going for and I think that you guys agree with in your videos is laughter.
Speaker 1:I prefer to make someone laugh because I feel that I learn best when I'm laughing or like in a joking mood. I'll remember, because I'm trying to remember the joke. If I remember the joke, I'll remember what we're talking about, right, I'll remember the topic. So that's why I do laughter. Fear mongering is, you know, fear is probably the biggest, probably the easiest way to remember something. So, yeah, I would go with alpha water. I I'd be like do you want to be guzzling down fluoride which fucks you like entirely, you know like. You just say something like that use the yeah.
Speaker 2:Good, if you're mongering out aspect, well, I mean we'll get, we'll throw it everything into into alpha water, that's. That's kind of our eventual get, get rich um get rich quick, get rich.
Speaker 1:Eventually it's like, uh, it's like one of those cars that you go into and you're like I don't know what's the zero to 100 in this? And you're like zero to 100 hopefully. I don't know, you know hopefully it gets there yeah, just eventually, eventually yeah the.
Speaker 1:There's no actual measured zero to 100 speed. Yeah, I do have a question for you guys and I'm like this is a genuine curiosity, so I think this is a good opportunity to ask you guys and I filmed a video on it as well with regards to brand deals, and I would like both of you to weigh on this, because I appreciate both of you in this. With regards to brand deals, I know where you guys stand roughly, but I don't want to speak for you. Obviously, and I would assume that you guys stand on the side of prefer to not take money if possible. But my question to you is at what point do you deem it acceptable for someone in our space to take brand deals? Where would you draw the line with acceptability of brand deals? What's your take on brand deals and how that influences the creator's output of content? Does that, does that question make sense? Like it's pretty vague, but I'm curious for me.
Speaker 3:The big thing is I have to have the ability to be 100 percent honest about the product, whether that's a bad review or whatever, because I mean, if they, if they believe in their product, they shouldn't have to worry about a bad review. Sure, and if they're putting out a shit product that it deserves a bad review, then but what if it's not a review base, like you could tell?
Speaker 1:so I'll use my, I'll provide my examples, so, uh, because I can talk about them. So what I do is I like to educate on canned foods, right, and that's largely what my premise is. I'm just educating someone, I'm making my same content. It's just paid for by someone. So at what point do you say that's a conflict of interest? That's not okay. And, by the way, you can don't feel bad about offending me uh, say you think because, well, I'm Canadian. So I, yeah, I appreciate them helping me.
Speaker 3:You'll apologize, no matter what we say.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, sorry, I would for what it's worth in any of the brand deals I make. To your point, rob, I want it to be so that I would have said it for free, right, if I?
Speaker 1:would have said it for free, or I would have paid in the course of I would have purchased their product and then said it, so I would have paid to say it. Then I think it's a reasonable collaboration. I also I'm on the side of. I don't think it should sway in any way your content, if that makes sense. So it could be a completely unrelated thing and you're going going, I don't know, they're sponsoring a vlog something that actually sponsored this podcast stuff.
Speaker 2:No, mine's pretty easy. Mine it's just like do they offer me six figures and then that's good? It doesn't matter what the product is, who gives a fuck you know how much money you know how much I can buy with no uh. This is why liam's rich and I'm not yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:That's why liam's actually rolling in money. He's that's seeing that basket behind him right there. That's actually his watch collection under all of that I got my bear bell hat up there.
Speaker 2:They sent me. They sent me bear bells. I do that's hype. They're good, by the way, bear bells are fire. My thing is like, if I've already said I liked it and then they'll, they're like, we'll pay you to say you like it again, I'm like, okay, that's fine. Like I already said it before I'll say it again. Who reached out recently that I'm talking with possibly frosted mini wheats? Maybe shut the fuck up, I love yeah, fuck off that I've.
Speaker 1:I've gone on the record saying they're the greatest cereal known to man I mentioned in a video. I would do that I.
Speaker 2:I mentioned them in a video. I talked about how much I like them. I wasn't getting paid in any way, I just enjoy frosted wheat and then like yeah. They were like hey, maybe we'll pay you for something. I was like okay, like I don't know if I'm gonna, or whatever, I don't like it's sure yeah if they don't, that's fine yeah, and I'm sure I'll get a bunch of people like paid for by big cereal. Sure I don't give a shit. I love cereal. I love frost Wheats One of my favorites.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can, I can fall asleep at night with that kind of thing. But I was just curious your guys's take, because actually somebody that's that's actually an excellent If you can feel good.
Speaker 3:Fall asleep. Look at yourself in the mirror. Yeah, it's a product that you believe in.
Speaker 1:You would have purchased anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like that kind of stuff, one of the very few I've done. I've only done like two, and one of them was like the lids that this company, charles, like Vianson, like they sent me some lids that you can cook with or store things, and I was like oh, I think I saw that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've mentioned them when they're not paying me. I've mentioned when they do pay me. I don't care. Like you know, I'm like these are just cool lids and like whatever gets people cooking and storing, you know, like whatever that's cool, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that actually provides a follow-up question. I know we're kind of close on time here, but follow-up question is and this is mainly because I might not be as familiar with the FTC guidelines, because I do that too I'm unpaid. Like I've made many posts about canned foods that are not paid for, by the way, and even during that contract like my contract is x amount of videos I've made already more than my contract and my contract has yet to expire like I still many more that I legally have to make, uh, or rather, based on the contract, not legally, but, um, I have many more that I have to make, but I'm like, but I'm making more just because I like, I enjoy, enjoy it anyway. So my question is for transparency purposes, how much do you have to disclose your partnership If you, if you're making it for free, the video is for free.
Speaker 1:You're not being paid to make the video, you just genuinely like the product, or you think somebody else can get value from the product, but you've been previously paid for something. At what point does that become a slippery slope? Do you get what I'm saying? So, like in your case, with the lids, you're making a video. They're not paying you to make it anymore. You already have the product, but they have in the past paid you. Is that a conflict of interest? Like I genuinely wonder that because I make videos about canned foods.
Speaker 3:I don't think that's a conflict of interest. I would actually say that goes to show that you actually do continue to use the product or whatever.
Speaker 2:I don't have an issue with somebody like they got paid once and one video and now, like a year later, they still talk about the product, whatever. I don't, I don't think so. I don't think. Yeah, it's an issue okay, well, that's I.
Speaker 1:I was. Yeah. I'm actually shocked, like uh, that that went the direction that we pretty much feel the exact same way on it on kind of across the board if I got paid by mini wheats to do a thing I'm not going to stop eating mini wheats. Yeah, yeah 100, in fact, I'd probably end up eating more. So that would be just good. That's good marketing on their part. Like I'm just gonna end up buying more of it because now I'm thinking about it more. You know what?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's 48 grams of, like whole grains per serving and like dude, don't even get me started, they're the goaded cereal.
Speaker 1:They are goaded by both the label and the taste. They are just superior. And the price point.
Speaker 2:I mean, oh, seriously, like, yeah, I buy them at Costco or Sam's Club or wherever you get the giant, the two big ass bags.
Speaker 1:Sorry, rob, it's like an inhumane large box because we don't have Sam's Club here and he doesn't have a Costco. I love the Costco sized.
Speaker 3:I would go to hell and back for that.
Speaker 2:When Liam goes into talks for his Kellogg's deal, he'll be able to show this entire podcast as a real. I'm listening, I was. If I make a video I will show like multiple times in the years I've done this where I've talked about frosted mini wheat, so like I talked about here here, here didn't get paid for any of that shit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just yeah. I have said multiple times that if I'm gonna pick a cereal, it's gonna be either mini wheats or raisin bran.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's raisin bran's a good choice. I actually tried for the first time. Uh, people were like upset about my decision to say that mini wheats was like the goat in my opinion, but it was when I was, I guess, not reviewing, but trying for the first time. The grape nuts, I don't think. Do we have that in canada, rob?
Speaker 3:I don't think so I don't know what you're talking about okay, good.
Speaker 1:So so everyone was like oh you, fucking weirdo, you've never tried grape nuts. And I go, you mean liquid cement, I mean like literally I've not. No, it's literally, I've never tried grape nuts.
Speaker 2:I've seen them because I'm in a, you know the states, but like that's not something I typically, most people don't just eat, isn't that something you add to your cereal Because it's like I?
Speaker 1:feel like it's like a granola type thing. It's not like a, that's not like a cereal, that's like a hey, I'm with this shit it's just on great. Although, although with some mini wheats. Yeah Fire, oh fire.
Speaker 2:I get the five one cereal and I'll like add that to like a fiber and that that's just. Yeah, I love that, yeah I love that big fan.
Speaker 1:So fiber one, if you're looking, or if you're looking for new, uh, sure, investments, fiber one, we'll, uh, we'll take that down and then we'll have content for a lifetime. No, okay, that was interesting. Yeah, because, again for me, like, I think obviously it's important to be super transparent, but and not but also along that note, I think it's also important to be super transparent, but and not, but also along that note, I think it's also important to be transparent on the other side of things, which I try to be as much as I can, is like, yes, uh, we make these videos, but, liam, I don't know your structure with the U S, how that works, but I'll talk for Rob and I. We make these videos 100% free, meaning what people don't realize is I put up a video that's a minute long or two minutes long. That video did not take us two minutes, even, just record upload.
Speaker 1:If that's all we did was record upload and write a caption, that took like half an hour. There's no way it takes less than that. And so you, you can't. You guys sitting at home can value your time at whatever the fuck you want, but we have to value it at zero, zero, 99 an hour. You know what I mean. Like it's zero an hour. And so there comes that time where I'm very understanding, and I always have been. Before I started creating content, I was like, okay, well, you have to find a way to make it make sense for you at some point, financially speaking. Otherwise you can't provide as good of a value if you're constantly thinking about how, where's my next meal coming from? Where's my next? Yeah, you know, how am I going to pay?
Speaker 2:rent. How am I going to get my child? I think I have an issue with care or whatever so I think, I think creators should be allowed go ahead yeah, I was gonna say, like we none of us have an issue with people making money on the internet, and I think a lot of that's a criticism. We get where, like we call people out, yeah, like like I, they're trying to, they're trying to tell you something else is horrible for you and then sell you their product that's three times the price.
Speaker 2:I have no problem with making money, especially even supplements like you know there's like the fucking lane norton's of the world or whatever, like sean nalewanyj, like they. They sell protein powders and creatine like dope. That's. That's super cool. I got no issues with that. It's just when you're selling them. You know these products that probably aren't going to do half the things you say and then they're selling them yeah, yeah, right, exactly yeah. That's what drives me crazy yeah, it's exactly that.
Speaker 1:it's the method by which they go by and like in the case of some, it's like they don't disclose partnerships or they don't, you know, follow, and where it's like I what? Like yeah, so for for me, it's like I'm actually pro. If you can make a shit ton of money, I don't care how much it is. You can be bezos rolling in it, I really don't care. Yeah, I, in fact I support it. My issue lies in did you follow the rules? You know, did you?
Speaker 1:Uh, if you solve for a problem, I will even simplify it If you found a problem. So my current problem right now is my camera in my bag. This thing turns on and then, when I get to my destination to film, my camera battery is dead, so it'll just turn on in my in my bag and I'm like fucking sick. So, for example, I'm just using that as a great example. So now you're somebody who creates this maybe this 3d printed thing that goes on top of the camera that stops it from turning on and you make this would never happen, by the way, because there's no way to scale it that much but you make $10 million doing that. Why the fuck am I to be mad Like I am not mad about that. I'm like dude. You just solved someone's problem. They found value in it at X amount of dollars and they paid you for it. Fantastic, I love that.
Speaker 2:I love me a scrub daddy, oh dude, fuck.
Speaker 1:Yes, scrub daddy, yes, that is one of the best. I'm oddly passionate about the scrub daddy. It is like a sponge like no other and, I'm not gonna lie, I was such a skeptic. Such a good product. But yeah, like products like that is like dope and the way they go about it is fun, loving, whatever. But they're not sitting out here and they do kind of, you know, fear monger, but they have the right to, because they say you know it's better than x product. Well, if you have any measurable way of showing that it's better, show it. If you don't, okay. Well then that's where I have the problem, where you don't have the measurable ways of showing best. Or like I'm okay with people saying it's my favorite, but when they say best, you have to have some proof of how it's better than other things.
Speaker 2:Nutrition. You don't really like get into the space too much for the money unless you're trying to sell, like a lot of the supplements, the you know supplements and stuff like that and that's kind of down that slippery slope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in which case you do, yeah, and and, by the way, and I'm all okay to your point, I'm okay if people have um supplement, companies, sponsorships, I mean I've, I, I'm okay with that. It's just like hey, I use this product. I personally right now work with gorilla mind. Um, I will disclose that Um, a hundred percent. That's a recent thing. I will also disclose that it is a recent thing, and so, for me, I will also tell people you can go whatever way you want. That's just what I'm using currently and I am, you know, they are helping me out, so, in a way, they're helping to fund those videos that you guys get to watch for free. So, yeah, so that you don't have to pay for it. That's my biggest thing is like, you know the consumer, they don't have to pay for it, and they're like, oh, this is great. So, anyway, that's a. I could go on for hours about that.
Speaker 2:Let's just say this nobody in the other space, the people that we talk about, is having this discussion whatsoever. They don't give a fuck. They just say how much money can I make and how quickly can I make it. That's pretty much yeah, and and I would.
Speaker 1:I would like to point out also that, uh, I'm sure it's the same with you guys, but I have sat in on these meetings. I just want people to know that I recently there was a company that offered me thirty thousand dollars us. That is some people's entire year income here.
Speaker 3:That is my year. That's more than my income, right, I had to say no to that, I'm not going to lie.
Speaker 1:I was like I was like whoa, that would simplify a lot of my things but like a lot of my problems, all of my problems would go away because I could eliminate. You know, I wouldn't have to work as much, and by having more days I can do more work. But the problem is, the product itself is not what they say it is, and that's where I know like that's truth be told selfishly. That's why I asked the question, because I kind of wanted to feel better about the fact that I turned it down.
Speaker 2:And so I, you know those those AI things where you take, take a picture of your food and it like counts your macros and like everything it may or may not have been one of them.
Speaker 2:It may or may not have been one of them, I figured it was maybe something like that because I've seen that and they're throwing huge if it came to me and offered me a hundred thousand dollars, I'd say no because like, listen, a hundred thousand dollars sounds fucking amazing. Don't get me wrong. But I I'm not gonna. You know it doesn't work like I'm not going to. You know it doesn't work Like I'm not going to sell out for that sort of shit. I'm not rich, but I get by, I do. Okay, I'm not, you know, as long as I.
Speaker 3:And that shows the integrity that we've got. Like this morning I had to drop my truck off for repairs again because of how much I've been driving back and forth to do stuff for my dad. Yeah, I would love more than anything to get a nice deal with a big chunk of money, but unless it's something that I can again fall asleep feeling good about myself, get up, look at myself in the mirror and say I helped people, yeah, I'm not going to take that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the. The reality is for a lot of these meetings is and, and. Again. You guys can talk to this as well as like and it makes sense from a business standpoint. I'm like, I get it, I'm not, I will defend it. That's fine.
Speaker 2:When they offer us, say you know, Liam's number of six, uh, six figures, that was kind of a big. Uh'm going to offer a decent amount, not $100,000. But even if I did that's what I'm saying I wouldn't take that.
Speaker 1:And I think there's good transparency in the space, right Like I probably shouldn't disclose that somebody has offered me that much, but that is the number we're talking about and I just want people to know that, like when they offer, I haven't taken a deal of anywhere near that size, by the way. So just so anybody knows. Um, no, nowhere, even in the same ballpark. So, um, but those deals when you first of all, that's that what I just said is going to hinder my ability to get another deal at that size, but leverage anyways. But those deals when they pay me or Liam or Rob 30,000, let's say $100,000, for simple math, they give us $100,000. It doesn't matter what they pay us. To them it really doesn't matter as long as they have that money, then they can pay us. It doesn't matter what they pay us, as long as we bring them four or five X in revenue. What that means is they want to see that we will bring them back Usually the case, unless to see that we will bring them back Usually the case, unless it's some different strategy with marketing. But when it's that lump sum of money, that massive lump sum of money, they want to see four times the people, $400,000 minimum worth of their money back. So that's the thing that I think people need to understand the most about these business decisions is I really don't care if they offer Liam $100,000 and it's mini wheats and he loves the product and he makes them $400,000. I don't care because that's just good business. That means they have a product. That's good, they have a way to scale it and make money, they have the ability to pay Liam what he's worth and they have. You know, everyone can sleep at night. Those numbers actually don't matter, but that's what they care about.
Speaker 1:When you go into these meetings, these companies rightfully so. They need to put food on the table for their kids too. So what they want to know is how can Eden or Liam or Rob bring us back four to five times plus on our investment and then we'll pay him whatever that number that makes sense is for them. So that's typically how these deals come about and I mean I'm not the most experienced in these areas, but I've been exposed to it a fair amount, so I know that it's like the numbers don't really matter to me at all. It's just about how are we turning that 4X? Those are the things that are like where I start to go like it goes back to what Rob was saying about the methods. How are we selling this product to get four to five X? Because I find it very challenging to sell $400,000 worth of cereal. You know like, how is Liam going to sell $400,000?
Speaker 2:worth of mini-meats. I'm going to sell half a million dollars worth of cereal, no problem. You know how much people-.
Speaker 3:Just take Oakley door to door and you know you want to buy some cereal for my child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Yeah, like that's the integrity of it. I will take $500 from Mini Wheats before $100,000 from some company that's selling some bullshit that I don't.
Speaker 1:For what it's worth, you should take way more than $500. If that's what they're offering, I'd probably offer more than $500.
Speaker 2:I would assume, I don't know. Yeah, but you know what I it's. My point is it does money like cool money. That's awesome. But like, do I like the product? Do I use it? That's what's bad oh, I just got sent of some fucking energy drinks and they sent me a robe with it as well, and they're like doing this thing yeah, like I was like a robe. What is this? It's just. Their tagline is definitely not a cult. Um fuck, they're probably okay, I'm not even mentioning.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what it is, but like so yeah, you've unintentionally joined a cult yeah, it's very it's.
Speaker 2:It's an interesting but here's the thing they donate one percent of their sales to fight human trafficking.
Speaker 3:I was like, oh, that's super cool I love that okay, maybe I'll like the problem and it tastes horrible.
Speaker 2:And it tastes absolutely. I can't even finish this, so that's a no, can't feels bad. I think I'm gonna make a video like they're playing. I'll make this video about energy drinks and just show anybody. Like I don't like this, like maybe you will, and that human trafficking thing, fighting that. That's super cool, but it tastes kind of like balls to me. So I'm just gonna have to get the strong pass on this one yeah, I've tried urine therapy, so I'm sure it was worse than that.
Speaker 1:Um, they went all natural.
Speaker 2:It was like we don't use any aspartame or sucralose. It's like oh you fucked up, I can't, I can't do, I give me the artificial my favorite is.
Speaker 1:My favorite is so. I previously worked with a company that was or tried to work. I'll say I previously tried to work with a company that was also the all-natural route, which was fine. I stopped communication with the company because the ceo was kind of um, well, hopefully he doesn't listen to this but he was kind of tweaking out about like, uh, he was anti, big anti-sugar because he grew up eating a lot of sugar over consuming sugar from iced tea and which was great, but he was also anti sweeteners so I was like I just this tastes like nothing.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean? You're like this tastes like dirty, nothing actually. So you're like and and again. Yeah, they were like a lot of environmental initiatives, all of this, and I'm like great, that's so I love that.
Speaker 2:But yeah, it painful, but it can't taste like garbage, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't substitute for a good product, unfortunately. So being a good person doesn't matter if you don't give a good value.
Speaker 2:We can be a good person and use some artificial sweeteners, we'll be. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But I'm just saying, being a super nice guy doesn't change the fact that you know, like the way I see it is my analogy, for that is like you are a great guy but you sit on your ass at home. I think people would rather hire the guy who doesn't sit on his ass at home and do nothing and is a shit person, but he'll they at least know he'll show up to work every day and, you know, get the work done. So that's where, like, society is right there, like they just want to be immediately rewarded with the thing that they can trust. So whether or not you're a good person doesn't fucking matter to them, they're just rather people are looking for for someone else to trust, where?
Speaker 2:where can they find you? Where can they find your?
Speaker 1:uh, you can follow me on youtube and uh, instagram and tiktok at evidence nutrition. My tiktok doesn't give me any views anymore, which is great, but you can follow me on Instagram.
Speaker 3:I'm there every single day.
Speaker 1:That's Canada. I think that it was ever since the Canada thing my views like, quite literally, I can't crack a thousand views anymore, yeah.
Speaker 3:But I post every day Evidence Nutrition, not Edenfins.
Speaker 1:Yes, correct Evidence. Nutrition E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E. Nutrition N-U-T-R-I-T-I-O-N.
Speaker 3:So sorry for making you spell that out, congratulations. You move on to the next round of the spelling bee. Fuck, yes, yes, let's go, my mom would be so proud, finally.
