In Moderation
Providing health, nutrition and fitness advice in moderate amounts to help you live your best life.
Rob: Co-host of the podcast "In Moderation" and fitness enthusiast. Rob has a background in exercise science and is passionate about helping others achieve their health and fitness goals. He brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise to the show, providing valuable insights on topics such as calories, metabolism, and weight loss.
Liam: Co-host of the podcast "In Moderation" and new father. Liam has a background in nutrition and is dedicated to promoting a balanced and sustainable approach to health and wellness. With his witty and sarcastic style, Liam adds a unique flavor to the show, making it both informative and entertaining.
In Moderation
Trust Me, I'm Not Selling You a $4,000 Mattress Featuring JacobFoods
Ever wonder why misinformation spreads faster than evidence-based nutrition advice? We dive deep into this question with Jacob, a soon-to-be registered dietitian who's making waves on social media by countering nutrition nonsense with humor and facts.
The conversation kicks off with a shared frustration about the supplement industry and how brand deals often promote products based on fear rather than science. One particularly clever tactic these marketers use? Telling people to "do the opposite of what the government says" – a strategy that plays on natural distrust while conveniently ignoring that most government nutrition guidelines (eating vegetables, getting exercise) are actually sensible advice most Americans aren't following anyway.
We explore the fascinating case of the food pyramid – a nutritional guide that hasn't existed since 2011 yet continues to be criticized daily by nutrition influencers as proof of governmental incompetence. This outdated reference has become the perfect straw man for those looking to dismiss evidence-based recommendations while selling their own programs and supplements.
The discussion takes an entertaining turn when Liam shares his experience creating "C-MEN" videos (Cheap Meals with Extra Nutrition), demonstrating how humor and strategic content creation can help legitimate nutrition experts compete in a landscape dominated by fear-mongering and oversimplification. We examine how dietitians, despite their extensive education, often struggle against influencers who aren't constrained by professional ethics or the need for evidence-based claims.
Perhaps most valuable is the practical advice on identifying trustworthy nutrition information: Does the source acknowledge the limits of their knowledge? Are they making you more fearful of food or more confident in your choices? Is their content making your relationship with eating simpler or more complicated?
Listen now to arm yourself against nutrition nonsense and discover why the most reliable nutrition experts might be the ones willing to say "I don't know" rather than having an answer for everything.
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Hey, welcome to the moderation episode of who Gives a Shit. I am mid-rant and I just kind of need to talk about it. I am so fucking tired of just like okay. So long story short, where there's like a company, they offer me like brand deals and I turn down basically all of them because it's just all shit and it's pretty much all supplements it's occasionally other stuff, but it's mostly supplements and like there are always these brands, they're just like. I hate. I hate the marketing, I hate the like it's free of blah, blah, blah, it's free of this, it's free of aspartame, it's free of seed oils. No, give me all that shit. That's how you hook me in. If you're like it's full of seed oils and aspartame and it has all the chemicals, yes, thank you very much, I will take that. But no, it's always like just it's gmo free, it's blah, blah, blah, like god. And they're like. We love your content, do you? Do you? Have you seen any of my content?
Speaker 1:I don't think you have and it reaches out yeah, oh, the fucking cat, the, the egg, the calorie tracking ai apps that's another one, along with the supplements. There's so many of those they're like. Other ones can't estimate your food correctly, but ours can't, because we have a proprietary. Get the fuck out of here. You took a picture of some food, ran it through chat, gpt and said how many calories are in this and then you're asking people to pay for that. Get the fuck out of here. That's, that's there's you, it's. There's no way that's even remotely accurate hey everyone, editor rob here post podcast.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, due to some technical difficulties, we lost about the first 10 minutes of our guest. But don't worry, we will be bringing him back for a round table eventually and we'll have him reintroduce himself for you. But the rest of the podcast is still good, so enjoy okay, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, uh, jacob was. So hey, we're back. Jacob was recording in 4k all his videos, apparently, and it just like killed the storage, that's. I mean hey, but like you got, that's one of the things you gotta look make your videos look as good as possible.
Speaker 2:We need everything we can to go on your face.
Speaker 1:If we're going up against people who are telling them like they are drinking their water wrong, we can, we need everything we can get. What were you? Wait, wait, wait, wait. Oh, we're going up against people who are telling them like they're drinking their water wrong. We can, we need everything we can get. What were you Wait, wait, wait, wait, a second. Oh, we're talking about the oils, right, beef tallow and all that sort of shit.
Speaker 1:Like, oh, that's the analogy I always think of is like it's basically like you come across a house that's just like completely dilapidated, right, it's a fixer upper big time, and you're like, okay, guys, what do we do? Well, you know the, the, the plastic pieces around the outlets, let's fix those. That's how I see like the kind of system working now is where they're like focusing on these like tiny things like food dyes and whatnot, when really like the biggest indicator for poor health is just money, just being poor, right, so like that's one of the best things. We give people quality access to health care. Like you were saying, let people meet with dieticians, because right now, I mean, I have so many people that tell me like I can't afford to meet with a dietician, right, like that seems like a really good you can't even afford eggs down there anymore Fucking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right Eggs Shit. So, like you know what, actually ever met with a dietitian? I don't think I know anyone. You're. That was just great because, like you're about to become a dietitian, you're like I don't know job security so I see why you're doing social media now, because you're like well shit, I don't know if anybody's gonna be able to pay if it doesn't work't work for you, you can always go to selling $4,000 mattresses there you go the off-gassing.
Speaker 3:You know that's what's. That's what. The cause of all our problems is. That and seed oils.
Speaker 1:And you know like that's the thing it's, like you know the people will pay a lot of money to to to talk with someone. They're not a dietitian or have any education in nutrition just because they have like a following you know what I'm saying? They just trust them, which, like I, I get it. Someone has millions of followers, so you think they have, you know, at least some understanding, or you trust them more, like I understand it, but, like a lot of times, those people are just like shitheads.
Speaker 2:My personal favorite is that when people when I favorite is that when people, when I, when I'm debunking paul and people are like I'm gonna believe paul because he has a more full head of hair.
Speaker 1:The hair, yep. The looks are pretty much like congratulations.
Speaker 2:You didn't learn anything about genetics in school.
Speaker 3:Please go back to school like yeah, there's like there's all these people saying, sorry, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. It's there's all these people saying I've seen several creators now it's always the super lean, tan, like clean shaven guys who are talking about hair loss is it's not genetic, it's your diet. If you're eating the proper ancestral species, appropriate diet, you're not going to lose your hair. It's like it's like almost entirely genetic. I don't know what you're talking about. It's like they just say this stuff to try and sell people onto their diet.
Speaker 1:Unless you're like super nutrient deficiency, like you live in a developing country. You know, yeah, it's going to be genetic, yeah. But let me ask you so you do like I want to get into this because you're like half hour and I want to get into this what's your favorite stuff from the? The like the primal community, the grifters in general, but I especially have a. I have a place in my heart for the primal community because I find them very fun and clownish, but like it's what can I tell you mine here? Let me just tell you mine real quick. I absolutely love and this is so smart from them because I, we, I've jay, I've talked a lot on this like podcast. I have like this odd respect for grifters Not respect is probably not the right word, but, like you know, I find them very interesting and I like I just like I'm like oh yeah, you know what that's really smart we did. It's awful, but it's smart.
Speaker 1:The do the opposite of what the government says. I see that from a lot of them they all say, like they all, they all use this line and that is very smart because we all have this distrust in the government for good reasons. I mean, you know we've experimented on minorities for you know, whatever, and and so, like it's, it's natural for Americans especially you know anyone around the world to distrust their government. So they'll say things like do the opposite of what the government says. The government says you shouldn't eat eggs, you should eat eggs. The government says you shouldn't eat red meat, you should eat red meat.
Speaker 1:This is something I see over and over again. Now do they leave off the part where the government says you should exercise more and you should sleep more and you should like eat more fruits and all this sort of stuff. Yeah, they don't give a shit about that. You just leave that part off and you just talk about the slightly controversial topics and you just say, like do the opposite of what the government says. That makes people distrust the government and it makes them trust you, the primal boy, more. That's my favorite, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and the reason I love that so much is because the problem is that people are already doing the opposite of what the government's telling them.
Speaker 2:No one's following the guidelines.
Speaker 3:If people were listening to the government, at least when it comes to the dietary and activity guidelines, we would not have the problems we have. If you're getting 150 minutes moderate activity, moderate intensity activity, if you're eating lots of fiber, lots of lean protein, this is the most not crazy guidelines that you could possibly ever see. It's just some completely moderate recommendations that are not eye-catching. They're not crazy, they're not engaging, but people don't like that.
Speaker 1:People don't like that they should be eating vegetables. They say you should only eat like one egg a day. And these people think you should eat 12 eggs a day. So like that's what you go after. And the red meat they do. Like you know, the government does say like limit your intake of red meat. And there's, of course. Is there research to support the reasoning behind that? Of course there is. But like no, these people are all about eggs and red meat. So just hammer those two things and, you know, talk about tallow and seed oils and that sort of stuff and just leave off because yeah, of course the government recommendations are like eat more fruits and vegetables and fiber and bullshit, but like no, you just leave that off and you just talk about the controversial ones, that's smart and, of course, leaving out any kind of nuance whatsoever, and I love yeah, my favorite still, this is probably out of everything.
Speaker 3:My favorite is when people talk about the food pyramid and how bad the food pyramid is.
Speaker 1:I was gonna bring it up I love, I love it.
Speaker 3:It's like they're saying you need to be having grains as like the main part of your diet. It's the food pyramid. And how bad the food pyramid is. I was going to bring it up. I love it. It's like they're saying you need to be having grains as like the main part of your diet. It's like that has not. For anyone who doesn't know, the food pyramid has not been a thing since 2011.
Speaker 1:That's not and that was like it was. It went out in like 2005 and then they updated the food pyramid to like to be a slightly slightly different, like the food pyramid that people are thinking of, where you have like the grains at the bottom and then like the other stuff, you know, as you go up the pyramid. That was like 2005, 2006, and they updated it to be a little bit better, but it was still like a pyramid. There was like a guy climbing the pyramid and it had all these vegetables and different things, and then in 2011, they did away with that entirely and now we have my plate, where it's just like you know, know, it's a plate and it shows you vegetables, fruits and all that stuff and, yeah, like 2011,. It's been 14 years since we've had that, but they still bring it up. How often do you see it, jake? Like, how often do you see people talking about the food pyramid?
Speaker 3:That's it Every day. I'm scrolling trying to find stuff to react to. I find someone talking about it every night. I'll go through maybe 100 videos every day. Someone's talking about it. It's like that just shows you how much they reuse the same points. It's like they take what has been controversial and they just keep pushing it and keep pushing it and most people just don't know the difference, unfortunately my personal favorite has been jordan peterson talking about it, because jordan peterson is fucking canadian.
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe we had a food pyramid back in the 1960s, but we have not had a food pyramid for at least that long. And he's talking about the food pyramid. It's like we don't have one in canada. I'm googling has canada?
Speaker 1:ever had a food we have, we had the food rainbow and I was just like hey, there's these four food groups.
Speaker 1:Eat some servings of each of them it looks like maybe in, like, wait, they might have released in 1940s. I just, yeah, I guess, maybe at some point, I think they maybe had at something food pyramid-esque. But, yeah, like, they love them. But I get. I get it because, yeah, like grains, we're eating too many refined grains, right, we're consuming too much sugar, so it makes sense for them to say like, oh, grains are bad. You know, like this is something I see Joe Rogan all the time Like oh, who doesn't listen to Joe Rogan for his nutrition, the best nutrition device out there. But he's always talking about like, how, yeah, like terrible grains are. You know it's, yeah, the food pyramid. We're going to see that for.
Speaker 3:I don't think that's going away anytime soon. Yeah, well, and the worst part about that is people like to demonize grains because they they think that if you're eating grains you are just eating like white bread and the worst stuff ever. But they're not thinking about you can eat barley, you can eat like brown about. You can eat barley, you can eat brown rice, you can eat actual whole grains. And the recommendations are to eat at least half of your grains from whole grains anyway, half or more. But they see this as, oh, grains you must mean junk food and rice krispies and stuff. Yeah, that's not.
Speaker 1:People just like with a spoon and a bag of sugar.
Speaker 2:And I love it because you look at Europe, look at how much of their food comes from grains Grains Large portion.
Speaker 1:What's your favorite grain, jacob? What's your favorite grain? I'm going to tell you my favorite grain Farro. That's the most underrated grain, a little expensive.
Speaker 2:It is a little bit more expensive than like brown rice, you got expensive tastes.
Speaker 1:Farro's good man it's got a nice like chew to it. I love faro.
Speaker 3:I'll let you keep going on, because now it's saying I still have low storage space. He's going back. You go without me delete more.
Speaker 1:He's gonna delete more videos. Oh shit, that's great, you are still recording so you have a limit yet.
Speaker 3:I'll.
Speaker 1:I'll go quick see all this episode going to be brought to you by Jacob's phone and it's going to be a little bit shorter than the typical ones.
Speaker 3:Which videos did not blow up and do well, I'll delete all those.
Speaker 1:Oh man, I've got too many Primal Boys talking about the food pyramid. I've got to cut down on these a little bit.
Speaker 3:Paul Saldino, Gary Brekka.
Speaker 1:I haven't seen anything from Gary Brekka in a while. I'm sad. I want to, like you know, like that guy's the fucking best grifter out there. I need to. I don't know, maybe I need to bring back my like rate, the grifter series. I really need to do that. That's a fun one. You have a lot of series you need to bring back. There's a lot of I'm planning on semen?
Speaker 2:bringing semen back, that's. I'm looking forward to that one good old semen semen jacob.
Speaker 1:I do cheap meals, extra nutrition, and just because it happens to spell semen, people have a dirty mind. That's not my fault, I just came up. I just wanted to come up with a fun acronym mind out of the gutter, people you're. If you, if semen makes you think about something dirty, that's that's on you. That's not my fault you're just providing value.
Speaker 1:That's all you can do but this is the thing like when it comes to social media. Like if I just come, I'm like, hey guys, here's a nice, easy, healthy meal for you. Like who gives a shit, scroll away. But if just come on like, hey guys, here's a nice, easy, healthy meal for you who gives a shit, scroll away. But if I come on like, yes, guys, I understand you want more semen, but you need to give me some time to recharge my semen, that is going to just do better on social media. It is. Am I a clown for doing it? Sure, but you kind of have to be a clown on social media to a certain extent.
Speaker 3:I mean the kinds of like visual hooks I see in these videos is it's much worse than that.
Speaker 1:Right, mine's pretty fucking tame, considering some of this other stuff you'll see out there. It's just an acronym. It's just listen, it's cheap meals. I just wanted to make cheap meals with extra nutrition and it happened to spell semen. That's yeah.
Speaker 2:Again with extra nutrition and it happened to spell semen. That's yeah, again not my fault. I mean, you could totally make a logo.
Speaker 1:That's kind of phallic that would be even worse. Oh, I would want to make like a little sperm. I'd want to make it like, just like like the shape of a little sperm, but it spells semen, like. See, you know, I think.
Speaker 2:Well, I was thinking just, you know the c, you just have it, have it curve a little bit more, so you have the rounding of the base and then men, and then you can have the end kind of flared out there's like a little dash, like I do like what you call, like what's what's?
Speaker 1:like a vein hyphen, like a hyphen could be the little sperm going across from the tip of the penis good brainstorm, it's yeah it's really dumb, but again, like, yeah, like you have, don't. Come on, jacob, you have to agree. Like you have to fight fire with fire a little bit right yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:it's so hard, especially being someone who, like, I'm not a registered dietitian yet, but when I am, it's part of the competencies to not give out any correct or harmful misinformation, otherwise you can lose your license and your credential. So I can't be too crazy with this stuff. Like I can't say stuff that can be interpreted wrong or that isn't evidence-based. So I'm like limited in how wacky I can be with my hooks because I don't want people to get the wrong idea and give out wrong information.
Speaker 1:So that's another reason why dietitians suck at social media. I've seen some dietitians say some pretty wacky things and they're still somehow dietitians Like not a lot of them. Usually dietitians are pretty level-headed, but of course in every profession there's a few right that are like oh, I don't know about that.
Speaker 3:I would say, like, if you're comparing dietitians to doctors, majority of dietitians are like, generally on the same page, but the doctors like. I don't know how you can go through such rigorous medical training and then have such different ideas about health.
Speaker 1:That's what's really surprising to me do you think it depends on the profession of the doctor? Like you know, you go into different specialties. Do you think it depends on that?
Speaker 2:or is it just because doctors there's a lot of doctors like- if you go to a surgeon and ask if you need surgery, they'll say yes right.
Speaker 3:Well, it's, I think. I think within their specialties. Of course, they probably know what they're talking about, but then so many just don't stay in their specialties. And there's also so many chiropractors who just say they're doctors and then are not nutrition experts. Yeah, we've.
Speaker 1:We've gone very in depth on the chiropractors before because god damn, no profession goes outside of their profession. I feel like more than chiropractors wild, you know what are you gonna do. But yeah, I think doctors, yeah, like they, just, you know, like when you, when you have a hammer, everything's a nail right, you know. So you gotta get in your profession and then you're just like, oh, it's all this, but like, how much nutrition training do doctors get? Like all class, I think I forget the specific number.
Speaker 3:It was a number of credits that they had to take in pre-med at my university, like maybe six, which is like two nutrition classes. But even then I shared a class with pre-med students as global nutrition, which is like not any physiology, it's not any advanced nutrition, it's just like health systems basically. So even then, some of their training is not actually the most relevant. If you're working in a clinical setting, you don't need to worry about Guatemalan healthcare systems and dirty water and hygiene and sanitation. That's not going to help very much with your career. So at my university, not very much.
Speaker 3:I have a few doctors who follow me on Instagram and I've talked with them about that and they said they they get like nothing. It's just not part of their training. I'm sure if you specialize in something where that's more relevant maybe if you're like a GI doctor you'll probably get more of it, but at a baseline it's very little. And I will say most doctors in a clinical setting are very good about referring to dietitians because there's an understanding that the doctors aren't the experts on nutrition. But once you leave the clinical setting you go on social media. It's just, it's all the stops are good.
Speaker 1:How do dietitians, how do you think dietitians what's the best way to like combat some of this? Because it's never going to go away, we're never going to stomp it out, but like, what's the best? No-transcript people can go. Oh yeah, I guess that is pretty fucking stupid. Maybe I shouldn't do that Like, and I think and they're like you know, six second videos or whatever. I think that's kind of like one of one of one of the most effective ways to sort of combat that Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you have to sort of appeal to the same thing that the the other misinformation people are appealing to. It has to be short, it has to be to the point, it has to be understandable and, most importantly, it has to appeal to logic, because that's what people listen to. Most is like yes, well, logically it would make sense that I don't know engine lubricants bad for you and they really play into that to say that seed oils are bad for you. But then logically it also makes sense that foods can be used for multiple things and there are multiple different foods that are used for different purposes. So it's like how can I tie in the same type of logic to show people that actually this is more logical and makes more sense and is evidence-based? And then I like using those short little videos, because they blow up like millions of short videos.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they do better, right, yeah, they blow up and then it gets people interested in in the other stuff that you have to say. So for other dietitians who are out there finding ways to get that engagement, to get people to see, just get more eyes on their content and then sort of funnel them into the other videos where they're actually providing information, is really important. And also I think people go about educating people in the wrong way. I think it depends on who you're responding to and the type of content that you're putting out, because I try to be empathetic and I try and listen to. I try to take what people are saying and assume they have the best intentions until I know that they absolutely don't have the best intentions. Until I know that they absolutely don't have the best intentions, and then it's okay to be condescending and be a jerk.
Speaker 3:Like I made a video yesterday on this um, or I posted it last night on this woman who, like I, posted some of her content on my story where she was talking about how to mitigate the damage of seed oils. When you go out to eat with your friends and it's like you got to go home and pop some aspirin, take some vitamin E, eat a bunch of coconut oil, but most of all, just enjoy yourself. And I was like that is not good advice, like you are creating like horrible problems for people. And I posted that on my story and she responded saying you are literally R worded, like just a slur. And that was the response to me. I'm like, okay, well, I I'm not gonna like assume that you're just misguided, I'm going to just make you look like a fool now and it people, people get that and they understand that because the stuff that is being pushed out to them is harmful and these people need to be treated like they are doing harm to people.
Speaker 3:But then there's other creators, like that guy who says you shouldn't have celsius because it has cyanocobalamin and you're basically drinking cyanide. It's like this guy might literally just not know what he's talking about. So then you're in the position to be like, okay, this is actually what this does mean. It doesn't mean what he's saying it means, and then just giving people a bit more grace. So it's kind of, again, hard to navigate how to do that. But I think a lot of people just put up objective facts and people don't really grasp onto that very well.
Speaker 1:That's tough, I think, because we need those people, right, you need the people who are going to go deep dives and stuff so people can go to that and see that. You can refer to that. But again, yes, it's not going to get eyeballs. It's a difficult balance for like, is this person actually willingly like, purposefully giving misinformation, or are they just like? Maybe they were just taking it? A lot of us have been there. I was like the anti seed oil you know world for a little while.
Speaker 3:Me too.
Speaker 1:And like I wasn't doing right. Yeah, I wasn't doing it like because I was trying to be harmful, right, like I was just like oh, I really thought these things were bad for us. But knowing where someone is on that is kind of difficult. So I think it's important to give a little bit of grace, but also I don't mind going the mocking route a little bit. There's a woman. I just filmed a video. I'm posting it. I'm very proud of this joke.
Speaker 1:Listen, I told my wife she didn't get it at all. She didn't think it was funny. You guys tell me if this is funny, maybe I don't post this. If it's not funny at all. She didn't think it was funny. You guys tell me if this is funny, maybe I don't post this, if you know. If it's not funny.
Speaker 1:She basically said uh, she was standing outside of whole foods and she has this zoe app, it's a yuca app it's. It's basically yuca, where it tells you all everything's killing you in the store, right, and she goes just because it's from whole foods doesn't mean it's whole foods, and so my line to respond to that is just yeah, right, next year, tell me Staples sells other things, or that I've been using dicks all wrong, and so like using those stupid jokes just to kind of like hook people in and like I'm not really making fun of her, I'm just kind of making fun of like the whole situation. I think you kind of just need a little bit of that like levity and then at the end of the video go and be like no, these apps are bullshit. Just fucking 80, 20 and enjoy your life, that sort of thing. That's kind of my method towards it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you can absolutely tie in humor in a way that isn't like this person sucks, I think it's. It's navigating, how, like, imagine you follow a creator who is putting out a ton of information that you believe in and someone else doesn't agree with them and they start out a video with, like this guy sucks, he's a liar, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Like, how likely are you to listen to that video? Probably not very likely. But if you go the approach you're going, where it's just humor, it's like we can all laugh about this People are more willing to listen and they're probably going to actually take in the information you're saying. So, to be too condescending, and I think it can kind of make an echo tunnel with people who already agree with you. When you're super negative about everyone, but when you're funny, you're light with it and you just provide the information in a way that's engaging, I think you can actually start to turn people towards the right direction.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's. I really feel like that's kind of the that, combined with showing people these, these, these, the others who are, you know, the people who are trying to like scare you and everything kind of how they flip flop on things all the time Like this is bad, no, that's good, now this is bad. I think that really gets across to people like, oh, they're just trying to sell me stuff Like I don't know. If you saw recently Bobby he's, he teamed up with one of the what which Kardashian is selling the popcorn. Who gives a shit.
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter the Khloe Kardashian or someone Sure Whatever.
Speaker 1:She's selling some popcorn and there's an ingredient in it that before Bobby has said like this is terrible for you, avoid this at all costs. And now he's promoting it because he's getting paid to promote it. Think, pointing that out while also just kind of you know, mocking in a sort of just like fun, you kind of ridiculous way that isn't super directed at the person, I feel like it's kind of the best way to get people to be like all right, maybe this, maybe this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Maybe you know they are trying to just sell me shit, you know? Yeah.
Speaker 3:When people can directly see that they're being misguided, it's like, oh, maybe, maybe I shouldn yeah, it's definitely.
Speaker 1:It's a balance and I think you're you're very right with the. You need those kind of engagement videos that are very short and to the point, and then, you know, maybe someone leaves a comment about how, hey, I actually think this stuff is terrible. And then you can make a longer video saying like, hey, no, here's why, blah, blah, blah, and you can make a minute, two minute video talking about it. And then the people who are interested come in and go oh, I didn't know that. And like, yes, those videos aren't going to get nearly the engagement, but like it will help people more. So I think the balance between those two things is very important.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was my strategy when I first started, because initially I only posted on TikTok and, like I was just posting educational stuff, no one watched it. So then I started posting a ton. I made a video on like calorie deficits and how they work basically it's a super short video and it blew up and then I was like, okay, I'm just gonna make a ton of these videos. I just kept making the same exact video and then all these people in the comments would be like, actually they don't work.
Speaker 3:For this reason, this reason and this reason, and I would just make like seven videos in a day where I talk about this stuff and that would draw the people in because I was getting so many views from these other videos that now it's like and I love when people argue with each other Like I don't even respond when someone says something wrong, for the most part in my comments, because I feel like when you respond, it just sort of shuts it down and people are like, okay, the big man stepped in, but when you just let it go, there'll be like 500 comment long threads of people just going back and forth and like on my tiktok for the last genuinely two weeks. Every time I go and look at the comments I see the same two guys going out. It's been going for so long on the same video and of course, the video is doing great, because now there's like a thousand comments.
Speaker 2:Make sure to shout them out in a future video, like thank you guys so much for boosting my content.
Speaker 3:There's this guy this guy named marcus. I'm gonna shout him out by name. Anyone who views me on tiktok will probably know who this guy is, but he is someone who never fails to have the exact opposite belief of whatever I'm talking about. And it's like he'll do stuff. He'll throw out a p-mid for a study and say fiber is actually worse for gut symptoms, and I'll pull it up and it's like, no matter where you look, it says there's no abstract, it's just a title like there's no study, and then he'll he'll keep going off stuff like that and then all these people get so mad about it and he he genuinely has probably been one of the biggest things that contributed to my success in the early days.
Speaker 1:So thank you, marcus that's for driving up the engagement and the views. You need the haters man.
Speaker 3:They help so much.
Speaker 2:They help so much I lost a lot of my haters and it sucks. I have also Do any supporters.
Speaker 1:I have also lost like a lot of haters. Recently there was like one that commented like an old Bobby fan, like I haven't seen you in like a year. I'm so happy.
Speaker 2:I think I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's like one, like just all, no matter what she's just like obsessed with Bobby. And like I saw her and I was like you know it's nice to see you're still around, I like that. That warms my heart a little bit. I think no-transcript, which is kind of sad because you know it's still a drop in the bucket, but at least it's not a drop, at least it's something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, At least you know you're getting millions of eyeballs on a certain message, and I think that's that's kind of the point where dietitians who love to go into so much nuance can sort of get free from that. And just no nuance. Just put a statement out there that you generally believe to be true and let people get angry about it, and then more people will watch your videos. That's all you can really do.
Speaker 1:And I feel bad because, like, we had a dietitian on just like a couple weeks ago and you know, I felt bad because she's like, he's like, well, people will bring up this topic and I'll be like, oh well, I guess in that specific scenario that what I said couldn't be entirely 100 accurate and I'm like listen, listen, you gotta, you can't, you can't, you're gonna drive yourself crazy with that, because nothing is for everyone right. Like you just have to give general good advice. And what I do is when people are like, hey, I have this specific scenario that's like troubling for me. I'm like, I'm not an expert on that, but there's this person who makes content for people who have your condition. Maybe go check out their channel and then they can go. Oh, thank you so much, because I like I don't know.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing. When you have like millions of followers, people think you know everything. I'm like fuck you, I know barely anything. I know the sheer basics, and that, again, will get you most of the way there. But if you're asking me about like these, very this condition that you and only 20 other people have, I don't know what to do about that. I'm sorry, I'd love to help you, but I just can't and that's what's important, I think, in finding someone who's actually trustworthy, is they. They'll say I don't fucking know, I have no idea, I don't know how to do that, I don't know what's going on. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that happens to me a lot is where I'll say you know, leave comments if you want me to give responses, and people will leave these super specific things that I just don't know how to talk about. And then I'll say why don't you respond to our comments? It's like I can't treat this. And then the misinformation gurus love to play into these super specific scenarios where it's like oh, you think fiber is good? What about someone with, like, the specific GI condition where fiber is bad for them? It's like what about it? Like there's people who are allergic to peanuts. Does that mean that people who aren't allergic can't have peanuts? Like it's yeah, exactly, it's focusing way, way too small and forgetting about the bigger picture and then totally playing into that to make people scared and freak out. So they follow you.
Speaker 1:Yep. And then you can say, oh, just take this hormone balancing thing or whatever supplement they sell, or just stay away from seed oils or whatever it is by my plan on blah, blah, blah, and you make quite a bit of money off that. Yeah, it's rough. It's rough out there in the nutritional world. I feel it's so rough, especially for dietitians. I always feel like I just want to say, like man, it's, I'm sorry you got to deal with all like all this shit. Like you know, you go into a field where you make like okay money but like not great money and you have people yelling at you about how you're paid off by big, big and that you're like you're giving horrible information, fuck man.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile, the people that you are trying to correct are the actual people getting paid by big pig and big, big pig, big pig, big pig and everyone's defending them yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I love to point out how they say that the health care professionals are paid off by big whatever. Yet these other people, the people who are putting out the misinformation, are paid off by you, the viewer. You are the one paying them. Like, what is worse, people who are being paid to do their job, where they have to disclose where their money comes from, or the people who are getting you to pay them so that they can be super rich, like, who do you really think is getting paid off there?
Speaker 1:Fuck man, it's rough, but I think you're doing a really great job. Just like pointing that out, because I think that's just one of the best things you do Try and point out the hypocrisy, laugh a little bit at it and then give for the people who really want to know it. Teach them the more in-depth shit. Is there anything because we're coming up like an hour here anything else that you want to touch on? You want to tell people, like just graduating I don't know if there's anything on your mind like graduate, because you know you're just graduating now. Anything you want people to know about, like the diet, dietitians or dietetic community or anything like that. It's just what I leave you. Leave it to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't know no-transcript they network with and who they connect with and who they follow and interact and collaborate with and try to build a network of people who, like it's not necessarily creating a little in-group echo tunnel, but finding the people who, who put out quality information and sticking to that and also trying to advance your own skills and discerning and deciphering information. Because, like people, people come to me and ask, like what are some resources that I can have? What books can I read? Where can I go to learn about nutrition? I'm like I don't know. You kind of just have to go to school for it. Like there's no book that's going to teach you everything. That's right.
Speaker 3:And when you go on social media, you're always relying on someone else's interpretation of the information and the best thing you can do is learn to interpret it yourself. But, again, not everyone has access or the ability to do that. So, just trying to find the handful of people that really are doing the good work and fact check them and look at what other people say about them and be skeptical and critical and at the end of the day, you really do have to listen to the evidence and the science. You know anything that makes you more scared of food, or anyone who says that one singular thing is causing your health problems, can probably be disregarded. Life is supposed to be fun. You're supposed to enjoy food. You're supposed to enjoy going out and doing things. That is all part of your health. And it's never going to be carnivore that's going to fix whatever problem you have. It's never going to be methylene blue. It's never going to be cutting out soybean oil. It's much bigger than that.
Speaker 2:But it is going to be a $4,000 mattress. It's the gases.
Speaker 1:The gases. So wait, I feel like kind of along that line then. So wait, would you? So I feel like kind of along that line. Then what you, what people, can do right is you? If you're listening to an influencer and the and you know and the group of people therein, are they having a positive impact on your life? Right, are they? Are you fearing food a little bit less? Are you enjoying life a little bit more? Are you finding ways to make your diet like easier for you? And, like you know, are you feeling better because of, because of these choices? If that's the case, that's, that's probably good. But if you're listening to someone who are, now you're just like worried about a lot of, like I'm worried about this, I'm worried about that. Now I have to do these things. You know like that's that's probably, you know, a bad sign, and you know like and also going to kill you faster.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you know, are the people you listening to making life a little bit more fun, a little bit more easy for you. If that's the case, then you know it's probably good, it's probably a good sign, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, cause that's people are going to social media to try and improve their lives and get better and get healthier. And if if the things you're doing to try and improve your health are making you feel worse, yeah, then that doesn't pass the sniff test. You know that's.
Speaker 2:It's not a good thing and if you have positivity in a negative space this person has all these rules.
Speaker 1:there's all these rules and you know like, oh, maybe it's making my health a little bit better, but I'm constantly, like you know, worried. Like, oh, maybe it's making my health a little bit better, but I'm constantly, like you know, worried about everything. Or I'm constantly, like I'm just stressed out, like that's probably not great, that's probably not great, yeah.
Speaker 3:And what world is that healthy?
Speaker 1:Yeah, man.
Speaker 2:Stress is killing you way more than those little rules.
Speaker 1:And that's why I think like and that's the thing with, like you said, healthy, like health is such a relative term but, like the people who are trying to sell you stuff, make it very specific. It is weight loss, it is, you know, cutting out these specific foods. It is only eating these foods. It is going out in the sun without sunblock, like all these these, these, you know these things. It's, it's primal or whatever it is. Yeah, but I listen, I think you're doing a great job. I say keep you know, keep it up. There's really like social media kind of takes time, and I think you have the right formula, let me put it that way.
Speaker 3:And just you kind of have to keep hammering that home. Thank you, I appreciate it. It's been a really awesome experience to have seen so much growth so fast and to have networked with all these cool people. And like I'll tell people that I'm talking to you, liam, and they're like well, I know that guy, like I've seen his videos for so long and it's like it's like I forget, like it's, you know, a following is just a number, but I forget. Like I have 40,000 people. Like it's at the point where you know I like last week and I graduated, I'm in my college town, and someone's like yo, I've seen your videos, I love that stuff. I'm like that's crazy.
Speaker 3:You forget how much influence you have on people.
Speaker 1:It's. So I was at Walmart and two people came up to me and they're like, oh, I like your videos. I thought they were together. They were just two random people that just walked up to me at the same time is weird, man, like it's wild but like, yeah, you know it's. It's a nice like reassurance though that like there was like it was a younger guy and that's the thing it was like.
Speaker 1:You know what I love about doing, what I fucking do, is that I meet people in all walks of life. You know, I meet the people the mom who has like three kids who's just trying to keep it together. This guy, the guy I met the other day, was just like a teenager who's just like he was just afraid of like seed oils and stuff like that or whatever, and he's just like he's just trying to, you know, make smaller, better decisions. Or, you know, I've met body built ex ex bodybuilders who watched me or whatever, like all sorts of different people. So I like, I like that I can kind of reach these, that's awesome man, it's really nice to have that.
Speaker 1:I guess I have one more message.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was low on battery this time.
Speaker 1:I was like something's going on over there. Oh shit.
Speaker 3:All right, yeah, so finish it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, give one more message and then give the people where to find you and all that stuff before your phone dies, so that we can actually find you.
Speaker 3:I just want to say to people who are in school for dietetics or people who are currently dietitians you should absolutely start a social media. It not only will help the appearance of dietitians. We learned so much about advocacy for our field. Because people don't trust dietitians, we need to advocate for ourselves and field. Because people don't trust dietitians, we need to advocate for ourselves, and you can do that by speaking to other people directly through their phone. And it's not only beneficial because you can put out that information that you learn, but it helps you with communication, it helps you with networking, it helps you with your business.
Speaker 3:So there's a little bit of selfishness in it too, but it's it's. It's probably the best thing you can do to advocate for yourself and for the field and build credibility up for dieticians at wall, at the same time helping people who might not have access financially or geographically to dieticians. It's it's telehealth, without that personal flair, you know, but it's it's telehealth with general, good information that people want to learn. People want to know exactly what they need to do, what direction they need to go in and what is right and what's wrong, and you can absolutely help with that. So start a a social media. Start posting videos, start talking to people, respond to DMs, connect with people. It'll absolutely be worth it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, voices against grifters. It'll go well with Liam Seaman videos Bag.
Speaker 1:Voices against grifters badge. Oh god, oh no, we're terrible fucking. I might be a grown adult, but up here it's not the case like at all so yes, tell people where to find you, so they, they know where to get it. You know more, more stuff.
Speaker 3:Okay, so my my Instagram is Jacob foods. That handles J A C B foods on Tik TOK is J A C B food. I have a YouTube account that also goes by Jacob foods. I haven't posted long form stuff, but that's my next adventure is I want to talk more, you know. So those are the main spots you can find me. I do nutrition coaching, lifestyle coaching. If that's something you're interested in, don't have to. You can get all the information from the posts I make. But that's also something I do because I like to talk to people and help people. So that's where you can find me.
Speaker 1:Do that and don't be your worst.
