In Moderation

Body Neutrality & Toxic Positivity: Annie Miao's Online Journey

• Rob Lapham, Liam Layton • Season 1 • Episode 113

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What happens when the persona becomes the product? We sit down with creator and model Annie Miao to explore the strange, funny, and sometimes tender space where AI influencers, VTubers, and deepfakes collide with mental health, body image, and the business of being online. From cat ears to consent, we unpack why audiences follow people more than topics—and how that changes what “authentic” even means.

Annie traces her path from bullied band kid to internet-native creative, sharing how the web offered belonging long before real life did. We get into the economics behind modern media—OnlyFans as a curiosity-powered Patreon, Hollywood and gaming chasing billion-dollar budgets, and the course economy where coaches coach coaches. Along the way, we challenge the culty edges of “life optimization” and ask what creators actually owe their communities: disclosure, value, and boundaries.

Our most important pivot lands on mental health and body image. We talk toxic positivity, why suffering can be a teacher, and how body neutrality helps when self-love feels impossible. Models and bodybuilders aren’t immune to dysmorphia—if anything, the pressure can be worse. So we trade mirror battles for kinder questions: What does my body let me do today? How do I nourish it without shame? With AI blurring faces and voices, we propose a simple ethic: tell the truth, label the edits, and keep the humanity in the loop.

If you’re curious about AI e-girls, burned out on hustle sermons, or just trying to feel like yourself on the internet, this one’s for you. Hit follow, share with a friend who lives online, and leave a review telling us where you think authenticity goes next.

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SPEAKER_03:

You pretty much do whatever works. You pretty much do whatever works.

SPEAKER_02:

That's that's pretty much the golden rule there. Liam just spent about 20 minutes talking about what he could fit into his butt. So I think that's whatever works. But we cut that part out. Generally speaking, yeah. Yeah. Beans.

SPEAKER_03:

Beans. Those are easy. What's your favorite thing to put in your butt? There's too many good things to choose. Sorry. Whole foods only. Whole foods only. Yeah. I've done red 40 before. It doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Red 40 enema.

SPEAKER_00:

My friend is a urologist, and so he tells me stories about all the old men he has to put things up their butt on a regular basis. Yeah. Yeah. I was I asked him the other day. I was like, how many fingers has your butt been in?

SPEAKER_03:

Enema's a lot. Ask me just important questions.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, everyone, yeah, that's how you break the ice. How many fingers has your butt been in? That's right. Me, none.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. No, I like the stories with like they're like we find what they find in people's butts. You know, they get like the x-ray and they're like, oh, interesting. A light bulb. Maybe it's colon has a really good idea.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, apparently, the people who come in for such things, they are repeat offenders. Like they don't learn their lesson. They just flared bass.

SPEAKER_03:

Flared bass. They always see in those videos. Flared bass. Come on, people. It's not that difficult. Yeah. Exactly. That's all. Welcome to Inmoderation.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's I think that's it for the day. We're done. Yeah, we're done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Goodbye from Inmoderation.

SPEAKER_01:

Careful what you stick up your butt, people.

SPEAKER_02:

Careful what you happy holidays. Yesterday we had a laugh track after talking about suicide today. We're talking about butt plugs. This is yeah, fantastic. How's um well? I I think our guests should uh introduce themselves. No.

SPEAKER_00:

Um goodness. I feel like you should introduce me. Why am I doing your job for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh we always make the guest introduce. Oh, I'm so at it. Oh, wow. Amazing ritual. Would you like me to start? Yeah, I'm showing this. Today we have Annie Meow, who is uh e-girl, model, celebrity, um entrepreneur. Entrepreneur. Uh come on, give me some other things. I'm a tattoo artist. Tattoo artist.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm a Canadian.

SPEAKER_01:

Canadian.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm vegan. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

See you later.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm a animal rights activist. Um I used to be one of the crazy ones, and now I think I'm more chill. And I'm just like a general internet person. I have a internet personality.

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like we all are, yeah. We fall into the internet. I just exist.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I don't exist in real life, actually. I'm AI generated. Um, which that's a joke that I've made for years, but I feel like I can't make it anymore because now it could actually be true.

SPEAKER_01:

So Yes, what you're seeing right now is just an AI generated girl beside me. We all know that I wouldn't actually have a girl in here.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, exactly. When do you think the like AI generated e-girls are gonna become a real thing? Because that's obviously gonna happen. It already is. Like it's a I haven't really split too much on in terms of the e in terms of like well, like gaming and stuff. Like, where are we at with the with the AI generated? Um, where do I think?

SPEAKER_00:

There are AI models, there are AI influencers and OnlyFans girls that are completely AI.

SPEAKER_03:

I know the OnlyFans, yeah. I know those. And like gamer girls. But do we have gamer girls yet that are like AI?

SPEAKER_00:

I feel like probably.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, like I believe we do have a Twitch streamer that's AI.

SPEAKER_00:

They've infiltrated every niche. And even before the AI, there was VTubers, right? Whereas like people, it's a real person, but they're VTubers.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, so for anybody who listened, VTubers are like, they don't show their face, right? They have like a virtual thing. That one I get though, because that gives you a little bit of you know, like privacy, right? You still don't show your face, you go in public, people don't know it's you. I totally get that. That I think that's fair to have that.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like being a furry.

SPEAKER_03:

It's exactly like being a furry. I'm sure VTubers will have no issue being having everything. I mean, a lot of the VTubers are furries. So yeah, but not all VTubers, all furries are VTubers. Not all VTubers are furries.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's like a circle. I mean, a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't a square.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, exactly. So I mean I'm curious when, yeah, like we're definitely gonna get like gamer AI girls for sure, but I haven't seen that yet. I'm just wondering kind of when that's gonna become a real big thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Probably tomorrow, now that you've said it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like, you know how they say that monsters or if someone had a nightmare of a monster, it becomes a real thing. Now that you've said that that's a thing, it's gonna appear to my wait, what what now?

SPEAKER_03:

What are you saying now?

SPEAKER_00:

It's like it's like a it's like a I think it's a thing in like Greek mythology where every monster was someone's like nightmare, and then it just Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think I've heard this. So only monsters become real. It's not a thing where like if I dream about being naked at school, that also becomes real.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I dreamed last night that I was that I drowned, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

No, that's a normal dream. Like, that's have you guys ever had a dream where you uh you go just through a normal day? I've had one of those in my life where I went to school and like I did homework and then I went home and that was it. And I was like, now that's a fucking weird dream.

SPEAKER_00:

Then you wake up and then you have to do it again.

SPEAKER_03:

You have to do it again. That's the worst. That's the nightmare. Give me the drowning. Give me the drowning. At least that one's kind of exciting, right?

SPEAKER_00:

I was telling Rob earlier, you know how they say that you can't, like when you have your falling dreams, if you hit the ground, you'll die. I have hit the ground before and I didn't die, I think.

SPEAKER_03:

I think. But that's why you're AI generated, you're not actually here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I don't know. It just could be my consciousness uploaded in augmented reality.

SPEAKER_02:

I've heard that if you have a dream where you shit your pants, you shit your pants in real life. Have you tested this? I I'm where I heard it.

SPEAKER_00:

I've like, do you ever have the dream where you really need to pee, but you can't find a bathroom that is not disgusting?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I have had that. Really? I've never had no, I've never had this.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like like all the stalls are gross, and you're like, oh, I can't pee here. I feel like as a male, I just let that shit go in the wind.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, I just like let it go. You know what I'm saying? Like you go find a bush, you find a tree, whatever. It's a little bit easier.

SPEAKER_00:

But maybe that's your subconscious' way of trying to prevent you from peeing in your sleep by making it impossible to pee in your teens.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I like the I like the philosophy here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Deep thoughts.

SPEAKER_03:

Deep thoughts. Our deep thoughts involve shoving things up your butt and where can you not pee? Come back to in moderation for more. Yeah, we've lost our rated G.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, long time ago.

SPEAKER_00:

You can pee anywhere if you're brave enough. Oh, you can also put anything up your butt if you're brave enough.

SPEAKER_03:

So what was it? What movie was it? I'm asking trivia now. What movie was it that it was like PG, that it was rated PG because they didn't have a PG 13 at the time. So they were like, oh, they were there was a point there wasn't a PG 13, so it was just PG or R. It went it fucking jump boat like real hard. I think it was like the Exorcist or some shit like that. Somebody is screaming in their listening in their car right now, yelling what it is. I don't know. All these kids were seeing it, and it wasn't it didn't go super well. So then they made a PG 13 because of that, I believe.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

Really? Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Because what is the 13?

SPEAKER_03:

It's just like for 13 years old or older. You have to be 13 years old.

SPEAKER_00:

But what are the qualifying criteria for it?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I mean, that so they have like this fucking board where people listen to it. Like, and so like for like a PG 13 movie, you can get like one fuck, like one fuck throughout the entire movie. And that you don't if you get there's two rated R. You can't do another one. You see a boob, obviously rated R, like you can't see a boob. You can hear fuck, you definitely can't see a boob. But like they had they just like watch it and they decide, and then they'll go back to the producers and be like, this we're giving it rated R. And they're like, okay, what can we change to make it PG 13? Because they want you know a larger audience to see it. And that's why a lot of movies weren't rated R. Like, I think what was it? Uh, The Matrix was like one of the first rated R movies that actually did really well the box office. So like they try and get it down to PG 13 if they can, because they can make more money that way. So they just kind of decide and they have to go back and forth with like, oh, we saw a butt or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, the original kind of the matrix. There was a lot of fucks. Well, no, it's rated R, so they could have used all the fucks.

SPEAKER_00:

Fun fact, I took a class in university where all we did was watch the matrix like every single class. What? And talk about it. It was uh what it was like narrative theory or something like that.

SPEAKER_03:

So I think what's it called Enter the Matrix? I'm very upset.

SPEAKER_00:

Like no, it was so I started out as an English major, but I actually ended up um having a mental breakdown and dropping out. And then I went back in and I graduated with a bachelor of science in animal health. So that's okay, so that's my background, um, which I don't use at all, but like it's not. None of us use our background.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not using mine, it's totally good. We're good.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, it's more about the journey. But um where was I going that? Oh, yeah. So as an English major, I took a class called Narrative Theory and we watched The Matrix every class and talked about how it's a romance. And uh, and then the final exam or like the final project of the class was just to um pick any sort of media and then write an essay on how it's a romantic story. So someone did like Kanye West's Yeezy album.

SPEAKER_03:

I love it. That's great.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I did mine on a video game. It was uh one of my favorite video games. It's called Virtue's Last Reward. It's like a visual novel. Uh it's really good if you're into that kind of thing. Um kind of like a choose your own adventure with a lot of like philosophical elements in it.

SPEAKER_03:

And it's about romance.

SPEAKER_00:

No. The point is the point is that like pretty much everything is a romance in terms of like narrative. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03:

You make it into like a romance. Well, how did you make it into a romance?

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so it's been it's been many years now. But uh like I'm stupid now. I can't believe I like I'm always like, this can't be the same brain that got me a STEM degree. Yesterday I forgot my address.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah. No, I've done that. I've forgotten my zip code, I've forgotten all sorts, yeah. Totally.

SPEAKER_00:

I forget how old I am, and then I have to be like, okay, it's easily this year, and I was born in this year. But anyways, um remember what year I'm born.

SPEAKER_03:

You just say that, and then you and then people can do the math themselves.

SPEAKER_00:

And if it starts with a one, then you're old.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it was we were born in the 1900s. Yes, which is a diabolical way of saying it. But it was basically like like in narrative theory, a romance has like certain characters, certain elements. Like it usually starts with the hero having some sort of like uh oh, I'm probably getting this so wrong. Oh there's like a call to action, like their parents die, or like there's some sort of choice. So in in the in the matrix, it's like the choice of the red pill, blue pill, right? And then so there's like general like plot points and character development things that happen, but don't quiz me on them.

SPEAKER_03:

I only watched it every day for a semester, it's fine, but never back to the future. Never, uh never, not once. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I feel vindicated. Speaking of back to the future, the DeLorean. Now, it's if you haven't heard, it's the new one they're making is$250,000. And we all want one really bad, but we also don't have$250,000, which is a real conundrum. We're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place, you know. But we we need we need we need one because it's the new one, even though my friend has a DeLorean, one of the old ones, though. Yeah, so we're we're thinking maybe we'll have to we could all chip in and get one of those. I mean, those are cheaper, those are like 50 grand or something. I don't remember at this point.

SPEAKER_00:

Like a like a time share DeLorean.

SPEAKER_03:

Mike's drooling on the mic right now.

SPEAKER_00:

My friend, she used to live, she used to live near me, but uh she's moved to like far, far away.

SPEAKER_03:

The DeLorean can only go about 20 miles. So, like, how it's true, it can't go very far.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so um my friend, she's she's an adult creator, so she has used the DeLorean for an affair. I'm totally fine with that.

SPEAKER_03:

That's what we have to do.

SPEAKER_02:

I could not care less at all. That's what we have to do. In moderation needs to become an OnlyFans site. Oh, is that what we're doing?

SPEAKER_00:

Honestly, if you I think that everyone with an internet following should have an OnlyFans. That is my hot take. Oh, okay. Because you can do whatever you want on there, it's just like Patreon.

SPEAKER_03:

I was just gonna say, so you can kind of just do whatever. It doesn't have to be sexual nature, you could do anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and then like people will be curious and subscribe.

SPEAKER_03:

Like could post pictures of DeLoreans, and then they'll be real disappointed when they get there because they want expectations. It's just me in my in my room going, yeah, but yeah, I'm glad I'm paying 385.

SPEAKER_00:

Someone out there would want to support that. You know, you gotta cast a wide net.

SPEAKER_03:

That is very true. Yep, that is very true, and that's what you try and do with PG 13 movies. You try and get as many people into it as you possibly can because I do better.

SPEAKER_02:

Speaking of casting wide nets, I I I just want to loop back to something. I I am an advocate of uh animal wrongs. Animal wrongs, and I will explain.

SPEAKER_03:

It's time for some debate. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

I really like it. No, no, hear me out. I really like it when a whale takes down a fishing boat.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh that is fun.

SPEAKER_02:

I keep my that's something I really enjoy.

SPEAKER_03:

It's when when when nature fights back, like you have stories in like the 1800s of like whale hunters, you know, like they go whale hunting where whales would fight back and just straight up destroy the ship. And it's like you Yeah, you kind of have to be like, you know what? You know what? You kind of deserved it.

SPEAKER_02:

Or those people that go out and hunt lions and then they get mauled by the lion and like shit. Hell yeah, we love that lion.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, like when the people who do the bull fighting end up getting injured by the bull.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah. Oh no, they got impaled by a creature that they were trying to kill them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, matadors have become like a lot of scrutiny lately. I think it's become illegal in a lot more places. It's still legal some places, but I think more places are like, no, we're not we're not doing that anymore.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's but yeah, like the trophy hunting.

SPEAKER_03:

You know how because you know how Teddy Roosevelt got his name Teddy? Teddy Roosevelt? He's our oh, he's American president. America, the one below. The corrupt country. It's the one that uses the system that makes sense where we measure things in body parts. You know, that one's made up.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't believe that it's real.

SPEAKER_03:

Unfortunately, it's not.

SPEAKER_00:

It's real.

SPEAKER_03:

I know which part the edge is. I can measure that one easily. 24. Anyway, Teddy Roosevelt, American president, was was American president, now dead, now long dead. But he got his name is Theodore, and he got the name Teddy because they tied a tree, a tried a tree, tied a bear to a tree, and they said you can shoot it. They're like, here you go, Teddy, shoot it. And he was like, I'm not gonna shoot, it's tied up because he did a lot of hunting, but he's like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna shoot a bear that's just tied up. So then uh like a I think it was a German, but it maybe another European country heard about this and they made a bear, like a stuffed bear, and they named it Teddy after Theodore Roosevelt. And he fucking hated the hated Teddy Roosevelt. If you called him that, he would be very upset. But now everyone calls him Teddy Roosevelt, and it's pretty funny. So long as you weren't tied to a tree, he wouldn't shoot it. Yeah, isn't that cool?

SPEAKER_00:

I want a whole stuffed animal named after me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, he would ride like moose and shit, like through it was crazy. He was he was a very rugged outdoors, outdoors manager.

SPEAKER_00:

Wait, was he was he a knight at the museum?

SPEAKER_02:

He was in in the night at the museum, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And they made him real cool in that Robin Williams. He was put by Robin Williams, yeah, and they made him seem so good. Was he good or was he like most presidents?

SPEAKER_03:

All presidents, yeah, kind of all no presidents. They yeah, they always commit some of those, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't really know if there's really I think comparatively to now we'd look at him and be like, Can you please do something? Can you run? Can you be involved?

SPEAKER_03:

Like well, yeah, the bar's low now.

SPEAKER_02:

We could do another Harding administration at this point and have things like we'll take what we can get.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh shit. It's sad because it's true.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, as a Canadian, seeing the stuff that's going on with you guys is it doesn't feel real. It's like reality TV at this point.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, we elected a reality TV star as president, so of course it feels like reality TV. That's just that's what we decided on, I guess, apparently.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. People were like, the entertainment value here is too much.

SPEAKER_03:

Let's go with that. I think that's a better explanation. I like the explanation, honestly, better than some of the other explanations. Good lord.

SPEAKER_00:

I think that we're living in a simulation sometimes, honestly. It's the only explanation.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, no, see, now we have AI, though, and AI is gonna fight the simulation. It's it's again, like we say, fight fire with fire. Exactly. Now everything's good again with AI. Problem solved.

SPEAKER_01:

What if the AI is made by the simulation?

SPEAKER_03:

Wait, okay, no, that's that's good though, then, right? Because it was a sim, it was a simulation, and then it got named AM. It's no, it's not wait, hold on a second. Is is it like Mr. Smith or whatever, like in The Matrix? Yeah. But wait, wouldn't we so they okay, hold on a second. This is fucking with me. So because they made Mr. The Matrix made Mr. Smith to go into like talk with to people. So is is the simulation AIs Mr. Smith that's now kind of talking with us and we're failing with all the AI shit? Probably. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Does that mean that I'm moist in a pod somewhere and they're harvesting my life energy with tubes?

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, does that mean I'm moist with a pod?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm sitting in a 300-gallon tank of lube right now, totally naked.

SPEAKER_00:

Aren't you moist now by by virtue of being alive?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, it's varying degrees of moisture.

SPEAKER_02:

Welcome to the new podcast, Varying Degrees of Moist.

SPEAKER_00:

In moisturation.

SPEAKER_02:

Hold on, that gets the police lights. YouTube exclusive.

SPEAKER_03:

You are under arrest. I don't know. I feel like varying degrees of moist is what like an AI gamer girl would have as like their tag or something like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Isn't there? Maybe that's what our OnlyFans should be called.

SPEAKER_03:

Varying Degrees of Moist.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Moderately moist.

SPEAKER_03:

Moderate? No, I want varies. Moderately moist is good, but I think I think we nailed it.

SPEAKER_02:

Varying degrees of moist is like one of those serial soap operas that goes on for 50 years. It only airs at like three in the morning.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

You go on a Wikipedia, you're like, how is it's 8,000 episodes? Like, how I've how have I never heard of this?

SPEAKER_03:

That's because they have 87 episodes per season and they just jam them all together.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. There's there's too much TV now.

SPEAKER_03:

Man, I miss the days when there was just three channels, and that's all you got. You had a little dial, and that's all you got to choose between those. They felt like they were just in the future. They're like, look, there's three channels to choose from. And now we're sitting here with 8,000 going, that's nothing to watch. I got nothing.

SPEAKER_00:

Also, the shows are too long now. Like the episodes are like an hour each. Like, that's too much for me. I think that TV shows should be like five ten minutes long. Ten minutes.

SPEAKER_03:

Are we going full Spongebob? You think? Is that the way you do it? Yeah. Full Spongebob.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Where it's just like two episodes and each one is like 11 minutes long.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, have more episodes, but then just make them shorter. Because I can't. Sit there, like movies are like three hours long now. I can't sit there for three hours and watch a movie.

SPEAKER_03:

No, yeah. All we talk about this constantly, our attention span is spot. So, like, who's listening to this? No one, nobody can listen to an hour of us now. So, like, how bring back button. Bring back and say five. Yeah, I absolutely love that. So, you can we do this like two X speed?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I'm sure people are listening to it on the Imagine if you could do that with everything.

SPEAKER_03:

I can't do the 2X. I'm sorry, I like I've tried like listening to podcasts. It fucks with me. I don't like it. Like, I can maybe do slightly faster. I don't know how people listen to it like two times speed. It's like talking so fast, like I already talked so fast. When you're talking two X speeds, you just gonna go. I can't do that. Uh-uh.

SPEAKER_02:

Too much says beans.

SPEAKER_03:

My shirt does say beans. I just feel like I was trying to film a video and I was slowly putting on more bean attire. And then and then, yeah, the whole thing will ugly up and then that's it. Now I got my bean hat. And now I'm good. Beans. Incredible.

SPEAKER_00:

I love beans. Big bean fan. Beans. Oh!

SPEAKER_02:

The bean pants.

SPEAKER_03:

The bean pants. Oh. Feels good. It feels good. It feels right. Do we have anal beans? Anal beans. No, but I have beans.

SPEAKER_00:

You need to add that to your merch shop right now.

SPEAKER_02:

Anal beans? In moderation. Anal beans. And they come in in a can.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, technically, aren't all beans anal beans?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't think so, but you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, because they all come out that eventually, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I see. I'm still waiting. All eaten get.

SPEAKER_00:

Just the other direction. Yeah. All beans are anal beans. But just the other direction.

SPEAKER_03:

I think all beans are potential anal beans because not all beans are eaten.

SPEAKER_00:

True.

SPEAKER_03:

Some of them get put in the philosophy of anal beans. Welcome to our new Patreon episode. Varying degrees of beans.

SPEAKER_00:

Should I be eating these right now? Can they hear it?

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah, we can totally hear it.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03:

That's true. They also hear my daughter scream and shit. That's just the way it is. This is life, man.

SPEAKER_01:

They also hear the train go through and we hear Mike fart.

SPEAKER_02:

Speaking of Mike Farting, I've got a call I got to get to. It was good to hang out with all you guys for a little bit. I know I'm leaving in the middle of the podcast. Thank you for hanging out. Yeah, well, thank you for coming. Make sure you have her plug all of her stuff because I know you guys are gonna forget.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Bye everyone.

SPEAKER_00:

I'll take your place. I'll be Mike now.

unknown:

Cool.

SPEAKER_02:

You and Mike needs a plan.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Everyone say hi to New Mike. Be nice to new Mike. Very nice.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm catgirl Mike. Okay. So new Mike.

SPEAKER_03:

How's like with a gaming thing? Like people tell me, like, do the streaming and stuff. I feel like it's just such a time sink, you know, where you're sitting there for like three, four hours gaming. How long, how long, how how long you gaming for?

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so I'm actually a fake gamer girl these days. Fake gamer girl. I like this.

SPEAKER_03:

I like where this is starting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I used to be really, really into video games. Like all my childhood. I had no friends, so you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Games, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah, you get it. You get it. And so I could be the type of person that just like literally that's all they did in their free time. Um, but now I'm an adult and I have a I have a quote unquote real job and I'm self-employed. And so it ha I feel guilty when I sit down to play games now, which really sucks. Yeah. Like I miss the days of just sitting down and getting immersed in like a new RPG, you know, and just like Red Dead Redemption 2.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm just totally in it. I feel it.

SPEAKER_00:

But the last game that I really, really got into was like Breath of the Wild back when the Switch first came out. So it's been, yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_03:

Zelda hits hard, man. Every time they come out, they're like, good job. Right?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. Breath of the Wild is like one of the best games ever made, I think. Um but uh I bought the new one and I haven't played it at all yet. And I am sad and I want to.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm waiting for well, we're I'm waiting for what we're all waiting for. Grand Theft Auto, the new one. And they've pushed it back so many times, and apparently it's cost like how much did it how much did it cost to make this? I'm I'm gonna look up how much it costs um to make because it's like some crazy number. We're getting anal beer beans before Grand Theft Auto.

SPEAKER_00:

We got catgirl mic before Grand Theft Auto.

SPEAKER_03:

That is one of yeah, like that's one of my favorite comments. It's like we got this before GTA 6. Okay, okay. Guess how much, guess, guess, guess how much it costs to make this game?

SPEAKER_00:

Two million dollars.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. My uh Rob, what do you say?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh it's probably gonna be more like 40 million.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay. It is between one and two billion dollars to make this game. Between one and two. They don't even know how much. I'm not joking.

SPEAKER_00:

Is that normal for games like this?

SPEAKER_03:

No, it is not normal at all. Like, it's every it's so like nobody truly knows, but it's like some people are talking upwards of two billion dollars, which is insane. Like, how are they how do you even make your money back on that like microtransactions? Yep. Yeah, but if it's let's just say it costs two billion dollars, you're gonna get two billion dollars in microtransactions and like sales and shit. I don't know, man. That seems a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's pretty intense. And like movies now, they spend so much money making movies. I miss the low production days.

SPEAKER_03:

I don't I think we're gonna lose a lot of that, unfortunately. It kind of feels that way. Just like a lot of the studios just go with the brand, the name, the name recognition, where they're just like, yeah, we'll spend a billion dollars because it has whatever character that people know of.

SPEAKER_00:

And I feel like we're Did you see the neutron movie?

SPEAKER_03:

I they made a neutron movie.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, with Jared Leto.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I didn't see the movie, but I went to like the I didn't actually see it, but they made this movie. I went to the premiere event in LA and um saw the like little preview and stuff. And uh I feel like they spent all of their budget on Jared Leto and CGI. Yeah, oh yeah, that's what it is now.

SPEAKER_03:

You spend it on the special effects and and your actor, it seems like, and that's pretty much maybe your director. And that's pretty much it. And it's it's good enough to get people to buy a ticket. And that's really but that's the problem, is because like that's all they really care about, right? Like if you're a producer, all you want, you just want people to buy a ticket. That's all that matters. That's all that matters. So, what else matters to you? What are you talking about? Yeah, to you. What else matters?

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I well, okay, so I try to use my platform and like it's kind of just like a variety show. Like, I've never really had a specific niche, but in general, I just try to like be positive and inspire people, but not like in a toxic way, you know, where toxic positivity is where people are like, you should just always be happy and always look at the bright side. And like in life, that's not possible. Like you need to have a little bit of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_03:

How do you cross over to that? Because every you know, people should be positive, right? When do you cross over into the toxic positivity?

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's when you like refuse to acknowledge that like suffering and some negative emotions are a necessary part of life. Like that's me. I'm a very I'm a very happy person, but I'm also very depressed. So I go through it a lot. And Rob actually like what has really been there for me and like helped me get them on my recent slumps. That's been really nice.

SPEAKER_03:

But um because you feel you need to sort of embrace those those negative emotions at times, right? Like that's important, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and that's like a like the philosophy of Buddhism is um, you know, suffering is a necessary part of life. Like some people they try to like there's this like pipe dream of overoptimizing, of like time management and just being your best so that you can eventually like reduce all of the problems, you can like do everything that you want to do if you're just strategic enough, if you manage your time well enough, if you're just good enough. And that's just not real, you know. Um I I think that like being able to experience suffering and the negative parts of life that are inevitable allows us to really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, you can't know what happiness is if you don't know what sadness is.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. And like that's why some people like I I I never want to be like a rich and famous person because I think those people they often get so fried from having all of these amazing things that like they start to seek more and more greater sensations. And so, like having to like work for things, having things to aspire to, I think is a really important part of being a human.

SPEAKER_03:

I mean, we see that a lot with like you know, the kids of people who are rich and famous, right? Because they don't have to be if you don't have to face adversity, you just kind of toast through, you know. Like, I get that.

SPEAKER_00:

I get that. Yeah, and they they have no perspective. I think like I'm we were just talking about this earlier. Um, have a little pre-podcast chit-chat. And it's just like having humble beginnings, I think, is the best thing that someone can have, especially in the face of success, because then you know what the other side is like and you can really be grateful for it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, oh, I totally agree. I mean, I I will say that's why it's like kind of weird to me when you like you vote like democracy, we vote and they're like, let's vote for the guy that was born rich and has been rich their whole life. I don't know about that. I don't know if that's a great idea. I think I'd rather vote for someone who did have humble beginnings and kind of at least understands. They can still turn around and be like, fuck you, poories. I'm I'm I'm getting to the top. Fuck you, poorers, like I'm getting to the top anyway. You know, so like it's still possible. I'm not saying that makes them good uh inherently, but like I feel like there's a slightly better chance, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the thing with Trump that wilds that is just like wild to me is that people were saying that he's a better politician because he's like self-funded, so he doesn't have the businesses in his pockets. But it's like, but he's the businesses, so if anything, that just skips a step, right?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I I agree with you. I get like I get the thought process where they're coming from, but also no.

SPEAKER_00:

Also, I'm because they're trying to say that he can't be bought out, but like of course he can because now he it's his own interest, it's his own company.

SPEAKER_01:

So now he has to be like, not to mention the man loves money, so he's still going to be bought out anyway.

SPEAKER_00:

Make it make sense.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it is, it is what it is. So yeah, it's but the toxic positivity thing. I think you're right. Like it's it's like what percentage, like that's the question. It's like what percentage of like positivity and negative negativity. Like you want to be trying to be positive most of the time, but you want to like tell people to embrace those other emotions. So are you trying to be like, is it like 80-20? I talk about 80-20 for food. Are we 80-20? Like 80-20 percent, like I'm positive, and then 20%. We're gonna talk about those sad times and we're gonna cry. Is that what it is? Is that what we're doing?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I suppose. I mean, I don't agree with the idea that like it should equal into 100 at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_03:

Like it should equal over 100.

SPEAKER_00:

It well, it could be whatever, whatever you end up at. Like, I'm I'm someone who I uh have due to like my history with mental health and life and everything, I experience emotions very strongly on both ends of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_03:

So I feel like my max capacity is not a hundred, you know, it's you just kind of embraced what it is in the moment. So like you have those sad. So then, you know, it's like how long do you give to those, like those more, you know, sad emotions before you then go, okay, I'm gonna try and get myself out of this time as you think.

SPEAKER_00:

As much time as they need, yeah. Um, but always remembering like the key thing is that no one can get you out of it but yourself. You know, people can be around there to support you and try to help you, but at the end of the day, you have to make the conscious decision that like there's something in my life that I'm not happy with that needs to change, and I'm the only one that can enact it. Like, no one unfortunately is gonna swoop in and solve all your problems. So you can either just dwell and think, oh, I'm gonna be depressed forever. My mental health is gonna keep me from having good relationships and career and all the things I want in life, or you can say, Okay, there's clearly something I want to change. How am I gonna get there?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And it takes a little bit of a kick in the butt, and I have to keep re re-remembering that constantly.

SPEAKER_03:

But and that's where you know it's the balance between you to kind of kick yourself in the butt, but you also need supportive friends, right? Who can also do that? For sure, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But you can have like all the supportive friends, and you can you can take medication and you can do all and that's ultimately not gonna be what does it for you. Like you, you have to, you gotta drive the boat there. I don't know why I said boat, it just whatever.

SPEAKER_03:

We're in a sea of sadness, we're in a sea of emotions, yeah. And that's why you drive the SS emotions as crews.

SPEAKER_00:

Um very I'm a highly emotional person, and so I try to, you know, with social media, there's this like shiny life syndrome where people obviously want to put their best self forward, and they're not gonna post when they've been like rotting in bed for three days straight. They're gonna post about all like and I you know, I I tend to do that where I post more when I'm having a great time, like great things are happening in my life. I'm out there adventuring, and people think that like, wow, her life is so cool. But then I also share like I share the negative sides a lot. I ramble a lot about how like you know, despite the fact that objectively my life is a lot better than it was before when I was like first struggling with depression, I still like I should, I should be cured, quote unquote, if I'm not. Because the remarkable thing about human nature is that no matter what situation we're in, we can make it normal. So if you're struggling, if you're struggling, like I grew up really poor and with some like chaotic family dynamics, and so but I was still able back then to find happy moments and joy because that because that was normal for me. And then people who have like who have it all, they can still feel sadness because because trains are going by. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you trains. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm doing a bad, I'm doing a really good. I don't know. So you know what I mean? Like no matter what you find, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I think a lot of like these, like you know the the guru gurus that get on stage, you know, and talk about like positivity and stuff, they can kind of like manipulate those emotions a little bit for for like in order to get people to follow them and kind of they put themselves up as like they'll say like you do it yourself, but then they kind of there it's all it's this gray area where they're like, oh, I'm trying to help you heal yourself, but also I'm this person here who can do it. And it gets a little, I'm always like, uh, I don't, I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know what the life coach thing, the life, yeah, like sort of the life coach situation.

SPEAKER_03:

I think they can be really positive, but also there's times you're like, oh, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't know about that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a little culty, it's a little bit almost like snake oily, where like I've actually a friend of mine became a life coach and he asked if he could do like a free session with me to try to like rope me into it, you know. And I was totally it was amazing. I the stuff like it was over the phone, but I cried. The stuff he was saying was so inspiring and so motivational. And he had me picture like holding my little self's hand and all this stuff. I was okay crying, but then he was like, Okay, it's$600 a month.

SPEAKER_03:

And I was like, Oh that's yeah, but you know, and it's like I get maybe, but for maybe some people they can afford that and it's worth their time and it helps them. So, like, I get that, but you know, it's very like maybe.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not here to like if something works for someone, sure, but it is very like pyramid scheme culty because the whole idea of it is you get a life coach and they help you, and then they get you to the point where you're ready to be a life coach. Let me now sell you these courses and then you go in life coach other. Yeah, that's apparently like the biggest industry in the in like on the internet is not actually like the stuff itself, but it's the course selling courses. Yeah, coaches, coaching, coaches.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, we've seen a lot of that, like those Instagram reels, wherever, like this is how I did this, and then just buy my course to find out. Okay, sure.

SPEAKER_00:

I find it so funny when it's about like teaching people how to go viral, but then their videos don't go viral.

SPEAKER_03:

I love that. They still email you. Like, do you want to get more views? I'm like, how are you gonna teach me this? You've your account barely has any, which hey, fine, whatever, do your thing. But like you're trying to teach me. I don't know about this. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I've been I've been on, I was raised by the internet, so I've seen it all. I have a very love-hate relationship with it.

SPEAKER_03:

I get I think we all do at the end of the day. We all do, right? Like, it's a for for better or for worse. Like it's both. That's the thing. Like, it's both.

SPEAKER_01:

Because you gotta feel both feelings.

SPEAKER_03:

And I think AI is like gonna be the same thing. I really do, where it's just gonna, it's gonna have a it's gonna have a lot of positives, but it's gonna have a ton of negatives as well. And I feel like maybe those negatives are gonna be more portrayed or more easier to see. The negatives are gonna be easier for people to see and feel and like that sort of stuff. Yeah, stealing like the artist's work or whatever they make artists, like their own video photos or videos. We're gonna see that a lot more than what the potential good that it can do. Uh so I'm I'm very interested. I'm very interested in the whole way I think and how it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, for sure. Like it's it's it's coming and it's steamrolling through, so there's nothing we can do about it.

SPEAKER_03:

But make e-girls AI and then profit off of it. So for anybody that wants to buy me girl, e-girl AI creation, just go on to precariouslymoist.com and buy.

SPEAKER_00:

You think they're not gonna come for your shtick too?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm gonna sell it to them. I'm gonna sell them the courses on how to make AI e-girls. Do I know how to do that now? No, but that's never stopped.

SPEAKER_00:

What do you think is an e-girl? I want to hear your take on it.

SPEAKER_03:

I always thought it's like an e-girl was like, um, isn't that like so a girl? Let's just it's so it's a girl that plays, like I always thought it was like a video game thing. Like a girl that plays video games, maybe streams, maybe doesn't, but play, but is like known on the internet for doing something gaming like. Is it not gaming?

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, a lot of it is there's a big intersection between like streamers, but I think it's mostly just like a maybe they just a girl, a girl on the internet, like it's this intangible. Like you're just a girl on the internet and you're probably into some nerdy stuff. Maybe you cosplay, there's like certain like wear animal ears.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

If you can't see me right now, I'm wearing capital.

SPEAKER_03:

Isn't that sort of kind of the thing? Or no?

SPEAKER_00:

It's it's it's almost like my content is just about me versus like a specific thing, if that makes sense. Like I'm I I'm the central character of it all. Where like my my stuff on social media has evolved a lot. When I was younger, I was like very just like makeup and fashion based, and my style was very different back then. And then it's just evolved, and now it's just kind of like a grab bag. I do a lot of stuff about like music and festivals and and just general like posit body positivity, which is also something I'm a little bit like and you're starting to do food. Yeah, I'm starting like a little foodie thing to you. I'm just like I just like dip my toes wherever, and and it's fun, but like generally the people are following not for what the content is, but to engage with me. So I think that might be the difference.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, personality that they're going for. It's it's just a very broad term. So like a very broad term, it'll be a lot of different things.

SPEAKER_00:

Um yeah, but there's there's a general vibe to it for sure.

SPEAKER_03:

Um yeah, it's one of those things where you're like, oh, I don't know exactly what it is, but when I see it, I know what it is.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It's that thing.

SPEAKER_00:

We're and it's like we we I guess to most people you wouldn't see someone like this in real life, I guess, is maybe a part of it. Yeah. I can see that. Like that's why I used to say that I was AI.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I can't say that anymore because it could it's too real. People are gonna take me seriously.

SPEAKER_03:

The pick that now we're talking about like all we were talking about last week, like the pictures, you can't even tell the difference anymore. It's gonna be crazy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. They got they managed to get rid of that like AI shine where it looked like larger than life. Yeah, and now it looks super, super real. And like the videos even the videos are getting there. And the deep the deep fakes are insane. So they're coming for us. They could literally take your face and have you say whatever they want.

SPEAKER_03:

But if more if people are coming to control videos, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah, for me, um What's your address? Uh okay. My name is Annie Meow, M-I-A-O. Um, and my Instagram is 50 Shades of Pink, 50 Shades of Pink, for obvious reasons. I really like pink. And also the funny thing with that is I had never seen or read Fifty Shades of Gray, but like it was kind of popular around the time I was making my handle. And so it's like 50 Shades of Pink, hee hee. And then I last year or something, I actually watched Fifty Shades of Grey and I was like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_04:

That's it's a little different than what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00:

This was what I attached my entire internet identity to. You've all seen it. I knew what it was like about, but have you seen it?

SPEAKER_03:

I I've not watched the movie, no, because it's explicit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. I cannot imagine going to the theater and seeing that movie surrounded by people. Like it's it's pornographic.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah. No, I mean that the book is quite, you know, I haven't read it, but I know it's quite explicit as well. Did you know somebody made a book called Fifty Shades of Grey, G-R-A-Y, and the entire book is just a bunch of different pages of varying disgust shades of gray? There's no letters on them at all. That's amazing. And then it got sued and they couldn't make it anymore. But I was like, that sucks. Like, I feel like that's a pretty good idea.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you know that it was originally a Twilight fan fiction? Was it a Twilight fan fiction?

SPEAKER_03:

Really? I've not heard that.

SPEAKER_00:

So it was originally a Twilight fan fiction published online and then it got picked up and she just like changed some things around. But if you understand like the Twilight situation, it actually makes sense. But then if you follow that like brain wrought internet arc of like nine of 9-11 is the reason that we have Twilight. Do you know? Are you familiar?

SPEAKER_01:

It's the reason we have Twilight. I don't know. It goes further.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so the way the way it goes is apparently uh Gerard Way was inspired by 9-11 uh to start writing music for My Chemical Romance, the band. And then Stephanie Meyer was heavily influenced by My Chemical Romance while she was writing Twilight. And so then and then Twilight resulted in the fanfic Fifty Shades of Grey. And then the actress in Fifty Shades of Grey, I forgot her name, um Dakota something. You know, the the lead girl. She she went, she became famous from that movie, and then she went on Ellen, and that was the thing that made Ellen de Generous like not popular anymore because they had that whole like conflict. I and so 9-11 led to the downfall of Ellen DeGeneres, is the completed pipeline.

SPEAKER_03:

It's I mean, it's all the butterfly part, right? It's just right, that's just what it is.

SPEAKER_00:

But that's how chronically online that I am. So I don't touch grass much. But that's why I love the internet. The internet gave me everything, it gave me my friends, it gave me my purpose, it like helped me develop into a real human.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So you really are AI.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm a child, I'm a child of the internet, and uh yeah, I'm grateful for it. And the doors is open. It just like allowed me to be me. And like, I'm obviously, if you can't see me right now, I I'm weird looking. But uh it's like We were talking about last week how to describe yourself.

SPEAKER_03:

You would just start with, Hi, I'm 50 Shades of Pink, and I'm weird looking.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm a little like it depends. Like growing up, there was never anyone like me. And then I found my people on the internet, and I got bullied a lot when I was young, and we moved a lot, and it was I had no friends. I was a band kid, um, and played a lot of video games and was just a nerd and weird, and no one liked me, and I was always like the tiniest person in classes, got pig blast in gym class, you know.

SPEAKER_04:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

And then and I found my my kin on the internet, and then it kind of translated into real life a little bit. Yeah, that's what's great about the internet.

SPEAKER_03:

You can find other weirdos like you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That's how people found this podcast. That's yeah. Exactly. That's how we all find this podcast.

SPEAKER_00:

I've been a listener of the podcast for a minute, and I think I just it was just like Instagram reels or something.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, exactly. And then that's how you find varying degrees of moist and worth it.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's the pipeline, the new pipeline, actually. Yeah. Um yeah, we were talking. Uh I mentioned body positivity is something that I like try to encourage on my platform, but like it in a nuanced way. Do you have any takes on it? Body positivity. Body positivity, like the movement.

SPEAKER_03:

I have a lot of thoughts about it. And I it's again, like we were talking about with the AI or whatever. I think there's a lot of good with it. I think there's a point where it becomes a little much, and it's it's very difficult to find that kind of in-between because I think we should be positive. Like whatever body you are in, you should strive to be, you know, exercise and do all these things and live your life, and you shouldn't be uh, you know, judged inherently because of the size that you are. But then people can take it to the extreme and say, well, anyone seeking to lose weight should be, you know, attacked because they shouldn't, no one should try and change their body, no one should try and lose weight or gain weight. And I'm like, that's a bit far. If someone wants to lose weight, someone wants to gain weight, then that's that that's their thing. Like, I so I think with anything, it can be, it can go too far one way or the other.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's the problem with like people in general, is they'll hear you say one thing and then think that that's like the only thing. Like multiple things could be true at the same time, and everything requires nuance, right? So like obviously, body positivity isn't saying that like you should just no matter what you're like, you shouldn't change yourself. But um, I like I support sort of moving away from body positivity and more towards like body neutrality. Oh yeah, I can see that. Um it's just like accepting the vessel that you're in and you don't always have to feel good about it because like you don't. You like there are days like I I model and like so technically speaking, like I look good, but still like everyone has insecure. Like, like if you look at the the the facts, you know, I am paid to model things and stuff and take have photos taken of me. Like I've I've walked for New York Fashion Week, like technically, like so you would think like okay, I'm probably attractive, but a lot of the times I don't feel it because everyone has body insecurities. And that's why, like, well, especially with the body positivity movement and how it's moved towards like weight and body size, it's it's a weird place to be in because I'm a small bodied person and I always have been, but I still feel like I still feel fat sometimes. I still like I'm not confident sometimes and have little things that I notice, but I'm not like allowed to talk about it. And I know that it's less my space to occupy, so I try not to talk about that as much. But at the same time, like I do feel insecure about those things, and so at times I've tried to talk about it and like in a positive way. People get very negative about it, and it's like, where is the line that you draw where suddenly you're allowed to be in the body positivity movement, right? Sorry, my toddler is screaming at me.

SPEAKER_01:

She's yelling, I can hear body positivity is a gatekeeped, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And the and the the pro the loudest proponents of it are often very disingenuous, I think. Like there's a lot of backhandedness to it, like even in the way that you'll see comments on like on like plus size people's posts, it'd be like, Oh, I wish I had your confidence. You know, that's it's very it's like a nag, it's a little backhanded. Yeah, and there's a lot of hypocrisy in the movement of just like yeah, yeah. Like we should just we should accept ourselves where we are, but we don't have to be like always feel good about ourselves and yeah. Feel all the emotions, feel all the emotions, and everyone has insecurities, even the people that you think look perfect. Like, actually, I think those people might have the most body issues because it's like their job to look good, like models. And I had an ex who is very like bodybuilder type, and oh, they're the worst body. The dysmorphia in that, they always feel like they're tiny, right? Like it's it's crazy. So it's like almost like the people who are the most lauded for their appearance are the ones who have the most issues because it's become such an integral part of their identity.

SPEAKER_03:

Exactly. Yeah, but instead you gotta ride the sea of emotions on the SS body neutrality.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I was gonna say moist. SS moist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, I think we gotta end it with that. Like I think that was the SS moist.

SPEAKER_01:

The SS moist.

Contributor

Liam Layton

Host
Head Shot

Rob Lapham

Host